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Old 01/31/2021, 04:25 AM   #776
aikenreefkeeper
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Matt,

My tank is a 60" x 15" x 30" tall tank with a Protein Skimmer, sock filter. I clean the sock filter 3/week and the Skimmer 1/week.
I have a 10 gallon tank that I use for QT. I use a HOB filter, PVC elbows for hiding and a heater.

I have a few questions if you don't mind. Who are you getting your fish from now? I have had very poor luck with anything staying alive. Do you quarantine and observe or do you assume that everything is infected and just start treatment automatically? Is a 10 gallon tank too small for the 2" to 3" butterflies? Maybe two fish at a time?

My plan this time is to use the water from my DT to start the QT with along with a couple of cups of sand from the DT. I have a filter for the HOB in my DT sump.

I appreciate the help. Hope you are doing well with the farm.

Dean


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Old 01/31/2021, 05:21 AM   #777
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Matt,

My tank is a 60" x 15" x 30" tall tank with a Protein Skimmer, sock filter. I clean the sock filter 3/week and the Skimmer 1/week.
I have a 10 gallon tank that I use for QT. I use a HOB filter, PVC elbows for hiding and a heater.

I have a few questions if you don't mind. Who are you getting your fish from now? I have had very poor luck with anything staying alive. Do you quarantine and observe or do you assume that everything is infected and just start treatment automatically? Is a 10 gallon tank too small for the 2" to 3" butterflies? Maybe two fish at a time?

My plan this time is to use the water from my DT to start the QT with along with a couple of cups of sand from the DT. I have a filter for the HOB in my DT sump.

I appreciate the help. Hope you are doing well with the farm.

Dean
Hey Dean,

I get most of my livestock from a good friend of mine in town. He's been in the hobby for 30+ years and doesn't really do retail, but still orders for his service accounts. I started working for him when I was 16 and I'm 38 now. Probably not a lot of help for you here.

Liveaquaria has been good for me in the past, but they are pricey IMO and I haven't ordered from them in some time. If there is no local option, they may be your best bet.

I DO assume everything his C. Irritans (ich), but I DON'T start treating right away, unless of course an outbreak shows up or the fish is obviously infected. I typically spend 1 - 3 weeks getting the fish used to captivity and recognizing me as a food source. If you have the choice, you want that fish eating and comfortable and not stressed out to begin with before you introduce medication.

A 10 gallon is fine, but a 20 would be better.

I don't love a hang-on the back filter, but if it's all you've got it will probably work. You want to set this tank up as though it's going to be up for several months (although it may not need to be). It's important to have a good biological filter going ahead of introducing fish. What type of HOB filter is it? What is the media?

I'd recommend a seachem ammonia badge when you first set up the QT. It sticks right to the glass and lets you know visually if you start to get into trouble on the ammonia. Ammonia will kill a fish a lot quicker than flukes or ich.

I would ditch the sand, ideally nothing calcium based in your QT, it can interfere with the medications. I'd just go bare bottom tank, PVC fittings for hiding spots, no lights, at least not initially and that hang on the back filter.

I'd use 2/3 DT water and 1/3 new water.

Farm is going well, dealing with this winter storm in Ohio at the moment, but it's mostly just slushy rain snow garbage at this point. I'll be starting 10,000 onions here in the next week. Spring is right around the corner.


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Old 01/31/2021, 08:32 PM   #778
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Did a 60 gallon water change for the first time in forever, not proud of that. Nitrates werenít too far off the chart, maybe 60 ppm.

The current stocking rate is not great, only one butterfly at the moment, and itís scheduled for removal.

The existing list is:
-centropyge venustus
-centropyge eibli - going on 9+ years I think
-centropyge flavissima
-paracentropyge multifasciata
-zebrasoma flavescens
-chrysiptera annulata
-johnrandallia nigrirostris

On the short list for addition:
-dusky butterfly
-rainford butterfly
-pair of Bella gobies
-leopard wrasse trio (new territory here for me)
-second venustus angel
-second multibar angel

The tank is still a mess, I basically just put the rock in without any thought when I set it back up. If I get it aqua apes, Iíll try to post some pictures or a video..
Your cattle are still excellent Matt, thanks for answering my questions about the QT tank and the procedures, now everything is clearer thanks to you and Peter. Post photos as soon as you can, it's great that you can keep Multifasciatus and Venustus for a long time.


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Old 02/01/2021, 08:00 PM   #779
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Got the QT set back up, it was a mess. I suppose that's what you get for leaving a tank in a barn. I'm supposed to have a new C. Flavirostris coming tomorrow, hope the weather doesn't mess with the shipment.

I'll try to get some pictures posted, I need to learn how to do that again.


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Old 02/02/2021, 03:08 AM   #780
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Matt,

Thanks for the quick response. The HOB is one of the smaller Marineland units. It has the filter floss filter with carbon. It also has the bio-wheel. I did elect to ditch the sand. Instead, I took a piece of live rock out of the DT and put it in the QT. I live in Arizona, so if I have to medicate, I will take it out and let the Arizona Sun nuke it to kill off any pathogens.

Correct me if I am wrong, you keep bio balls in the sump of your display tank and then move them to your QT when you need to use it? Do they not absorb the medications?


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Old 02/03/2021, 03:27 PM   #781
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Works been a lot the past day and a half, so I havenít spent much time with the new guy. Luckily he took to clam right away. Donít foresee any issues getting this guy going.

Once heís transitioned to LRS foods, Iíll do a WC and start cupramine.


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Old 02/04/2021, 06:32 AM   #782
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Tried the LRS food this morning, good sign.


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Old 02/05/2021, 03:55 AM   #783
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I have good news also.

I received my Chaetodon kleini and mertensii on Wednesday. I got them from DD.....a little on the expensive side but if they both survive, it will be worth it considering the losses I have experienced in the past. Both looked good. I Opened one of the bags and there was water between the inner and outer bags. I checked the salinity and it matched my QT. So, I floated the bag in the QT for 30 minutes. I then removed the bag from the QT and cut it open. I took a 2 gallon bucket and tilted it on its side so the waterfall would be reduced. I then netted the fish and put it in the QT.

I keep wild caught shrimp and scallops as a food source. The scallops have this really strong smell. So I shaved a few pieces off of the scallop. I mixed it with a little tank water. I use a dropper to put a small amount of the water in the tank. You could tell from how they were acting that they sensed food. When I put the pieces of scallop in the tank, it took them about a minute to find it but they both went after it.

Thursday morning I did the same thing and got the same results. Thursday afternoon, as soon as they saw me, they were at the glass waiting on dinner.

The kleini is half the size of the mertensii, but he is turning out to be the bully at feeding time.

I plan on doing a gallon water change every day. I am using my DT water as the source. I plan on waiting about a week before I do any kind of treatment. I think I have an idea for setting up a biological filter similar to Matt's. I saw that in his video. Thanks for putting that up there.

Matt,

Do the butterflies tolerate copper and prazi? Would you recommend both of these?

Thanks for your assistance.

Dean


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Old 02/05/2021, 03:57 AM   #784
aikenreefkeeper
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Matt,

One other question I forgot to ask.....what is LRS food?

Thanks,

Dean


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Old 02/05/2021, 04:59 AM   #785
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I have good news also.

I received my Chaetodon kleini and mertensii on Wednesday. I got them from DD.....a little on the expensive side but if they both survive, it will be worth it considering the losses I have experienced in the past. Both looked good. I Opened one of the bags and there was water between the inner and outer bags. I checked the salinity and it matched my QT. So, I floated the bag in the QT for 30 minutes. I then removed the bag from the QT and cut it open. I took a 2 gallon bucket and tilted it on its side so the waterfall would be reduced. I then netted the fish and put it in the QT.

I keep wild caught shrimp and scallops as a food source. The scallops have this really strong smell. So I shaved a few pieces off of the scallop. I mixed it with a little tank water. I use a dropper to put a small amount of the water in the tank. You could tell from how they were acting that they sensed food. When I put the pieces of scallop in the tank, it took them about a minute to find it but they both went after it.

Thursday morning I did the same thing and got the same results. Thursday afternoon, as soon as they saw me, they were at the glass waiting on dinner.

The kleini is half the size of the mertensii, but he is turning out to be the bully at feeding time.

I plan on doing a gallon water change every day. I am using my DT water as the source. I plan on waiting about a week before I do any kind of treatment. I think I have an idea for setting up a biological filter similar to Matt's. I saw that in his video. Thanks for putting that up there.

Matt,

Do the butterflies tolerate copper and prazi? Would you recommend both of these?

Thanks for your assistance.

Dean
Hey Dean,

Good to hear about the butterflies off divers den, I've had good experience with that supplier in the past.

Honestly getting them to eat is more than half the battle. I've had no issues with cupramine and butterflies. I take 8 days to get up to active concentration though.

Prazi is another story, I think it can suppress appetite, but it is usually temporary. That's one of the reasons why it's so important to get them eating well ahead of any treatments.

Make sure you are monitoring the ammonia levels, that hang on the back filter might be taxed with the scallops you are feeding. If you have a HOB skimmer, it might be a good idea to add one. I added a Reef Octopus to mine.

LRS = Larry's Reef Services foods. Do a quick google search and you should find it. Best food IMO. I feed their fish frenzy and Herbivore frenzy. They have a new one specific to breeders that I'd like to try.

Keep me posted on your new additions. Do you have a tank thread?


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Old 02/06/2021, 12:00 AM   #786
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Hi Matt, that Flavirostris butterfly looks very good, and we can finally have a shot of how the leak is in its quarantine system, I imagined something like that in your explanations in previous comments and I see that I was not wrong. Keep up the good work.

By the way Aiken good luck with your new fish, DD is great, I wouldn't mind paying a premium for fish that are in excellent health.


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Old 02/06/2021, 03:11 AM   #787
aikenreefkeeper
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Matt,

I do have a build thread. The name is "Another Reef in the Desert". Thanks for asking.

A few more questions...... What test kit do you use for Copper? the test kit I had has expired. I was thinking about getting the Hanna.

Have you ever tried those ceramic balls? I was doing some research and they seem to have a huge amount of surface area. When I start up my QT, I have three tanks running. If I get another larger tank for QT, my better half will not be happy.

On another note. I tried something different yesterday morning. I took some flake food and soaked it with a few drops of Selcon. The kleini went right after it. The mertansii did not care for it. So, I target fed some pieces of shrimp. It was so funny. One of the pieces was too large. They were snatching if from each other. they would also play tug-of-war with it like a couple of dogs. It was hilarious to watch. How often do you feed your butterflies? Currently I am feeding twice a day. I plan on waiting a week before I start any kind of treatment.

Thanks Lalo J.

I have had very poor luck so far with the livestock I have purchased. I was using my local Fist Store. I wanted to "Buy Local". It seems that everything I got from them had some kind of parasite. They swear that they keep their tanks treated with copper. The last time I went there, I say a couple of dead fish and one poor Tang was covered with ich. So.....no more purchases from them.

Enough for now.

Dean


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Old 02/06/2021, 06:15 PM   #788
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Matt,

I do have a build thread. The name is "Another Reef in the Desert". Thanks for asking.

A few more questions...... What test kit do you use for Copper? the test kit I had has expired. I was thinking about getting the Hanna.

Have you ever tried those ceramic balls? I was doing some research and they seem to have a huge amount of surface area. When I start up my QT, I have three tanks running. If I get another larger tank for QT, my better half will not be happy.

On another note. I tried something different yesterday morning. I took some flake food and soaked it with a few drops of Selcon. The kleini went right after it. The mertansii did not care for it. So, I target fed some pieces of shrimp. It was so funny. One of the pieces was too large. They were snatching if from each other. they would also play tug-of-war with it like a couple of dogs. It was hilarious to watch. How often do you feed your butterflies? Currently I am feeding twice a day. I plan on waiting a week before I start any kind of treatment.

Thanks Lalo J.

I have had very poor luck so far with the livestock I have purchased. I was using my local Fist Store. I wanted to "Buy Local". It seems that everything I got from them had some kind of parasite. They swear that they keep their tanks treated with copper. The last time I went there, I say a couple of dead fish and one poor Tang was covered with ich. So.....no more purchases from them.

Enough for now.

Dean
Hey Dean,

I use the seachem test kit for Cupramine, I donít really like it, but itís the only one Iíve ever used.

I havenít used the ceramic rings, but Iíve heard good things about them. Iím not sure if they absorb the copper more compared to the plastic bioballs, it seems like they might.

Glad to hear the fish are eating well, DD usually provides quality livestock.

The flavirostris is not really progressing as well as Iíd prefer. I need to get some PE mysis to try, maybe Iíll pick some up tomorrow.

Heís nipping at the clams, but Iím not sure heís ingesting much.


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Old 02/06/2021, 06:29 PM   #789
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Hey Dean,

I use the seachem test kit for Cupramine, I donít really like it, but itís the only one Iíve ever used.

I havenít used the ceramic rings, but Iíve heard good things about them. Iím not sure if they absorb the copper more compared to the plastic bioballs, it seems like they might.

Glad to hear the fish are eating well, DD usually provides quality livestock.

The flavirostris is not really progressing as well as Iíd prefer. I need to get some PE mysis to try, maybe Iíll pick some up tomorrow.

Heís nipping at the clams, but Iím not sure heís ingesting much.
Really hoping your flavi comes through. I tried one of the tiny ones DD had a little while, back. Never ate... died in about 10 days... small BF's like that just can't go that long.

Hey congrats on having a $500 yellow tang, BTW


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Old 02/06/2021, 08:58 PM   #790
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Really hoping your flavi comes through. I tried one of the tiny ones DD had a little while, back. Never ate... died in about 10 days... small BF's like that just can't go that long.

Hey congrats on having a $500 yellow tang, BTW
Heís the new celebrity in my tank. Hope this ban passes soon.


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Old 02/07/2021, 02:51 AM   #791
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So I had an unexpected problem yesterday. I noticed that the kleini was acting a little strange. My ammonia test kit had expired, so I went to Pecto and bought a new one. I tested the water and it was at 4.0ppm!. I tested my Display Tank and it tested Zero. So I grabbed a net and caught the two butterflies and put them in my display tank. I hope they are not carrying and disease or pathogens. The only thing I can think of is the bacteria on that piece of live rock must have started to die off. I was only feeding a very small amount. I would have never thought that would have happened. Have you had any experience like that? It wasn't too long after I put them in the tank that they were swimming around and picking at the live rock. I hope that their gills were not damaged.

Thanks,

Dean

Here is a picture of them.




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Old 02/08/2021, 06:44 PM   #792
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So I had an unexpected problem yesterday. I noticed that the kleini was acting a little strange. My ammonia test kit had expired, so I went to Pecto and bought a new one. I tested the water and it was at 4.0ppm!. I tested my Display Tank and it tested Zero. So I grabbed a net and caught the two butterflies and put them in my display tank. I hope they are not carrying and disease or pathogens. The only thing I can think of is the bacteria on that piece of live rock must have started to die off. I was only feeding a very small amount. I would have never thought that would have happened. Have you had any experience like that? It wasn't too long after I put them in the tank that they were swimming around and picking at the live rock. I hope that their gills were not damaged.

Thanks,

Dean

Here is a picture of them.


Hey Dean,

Nice pics, fish look great.

I actually just had a similar issue to yours with ammonia. I tried to cheat the cycle with some bioballs from another sump and had a 1.0 ammonia test yesterday.

I did about a 90% water change yesterday and just finished doing another one tonight. I also added a few pieces of live rock.

The dusky wasnít acting right and had Quit eating, so I thought something might be up. Hoping he starts eating again now that the ammonia is more under control.


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Old 02/12/2021, 02:52 AM   #793
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Matt

It has been a week now since I got the Kleini and Mertensii. After that ammonia spike, I was afraid that their gills may have been damaged. But they are breathing normally and they are eating well. Every time I enter the room where my Display Tank is, they are at the glass wanting to be fed. I am feeding them twice a day. No signs of illness, pests or disease. I am wanting to add two or three more butterflies. I am looking at Heniochus singularis, Chaetodon rafflesi , Chaetodon decussatus, Chaetodo punctatofasciatus or the Chaetodo pelewensis. Do you have any concerns with any of these?

Thanks,

Dean


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Old 02/12/2021, 03:17 AM   #794
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I'd avoid the Chaetodon pelewensis........they can be very difficult to get to eat and don't really have good long term success.

On the other hand Chaetodon punctatofasciatus is super easy and will eat anything thrown in the tank.


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Old 02/14/2021, 06:06 PM   #795
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I'd avoid the Chaetodon pelewensis........they can be very difficult to get to eat and don't really have good long term success.

On the other hand Chaetodon punctatofasciatus is super easy and will eat anything thrown in the tank.
Good to see you posting Big E!!

Totally agree pelewensis.


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Old 02/14/2021, 06:08 PM   #796
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Matt

It has been a week now since I got the Kleini and Mertensii. After that ammonia spike, I was afraid that their gills may have been damaged. But they are breathing normally and they are eating well. Every time I enter the room where my Display Tank is, they are at the glass wanting to be fed. I am feeding them twice a day. No signs of illness, pests or disease. I am wanting to add two or three more butterflies. I am looking at Heniochus singularis, Chaetodon rafflesi , Chaetodon decussatus, Chaetodo punctatofasciatus or the Chaetodo pelewensis. Do you have any concerns with any of these?

Thanks,

Dean
Hey Dean,

Hard to speak on any of those as I have never tried keeping any of them. Iíd agree with big E on the pelewensis being difficult though.

I think the vagabond are somewhat difficult as well, but again, I donít have any personal experience with them.

Not much help I realize.


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Old 02/14/2021, 06:12 PM   #797
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The dusky continues to hang around, it nips at brine occasionally and seems interested in food in the water column when I feed initially.

I definitely don’t have the feeding response I need yet though. Plan to try live clams and shaved scallops this week and hopefully some newly arrived LRS fish frenzy.

I’m currently feeding reef frenzy and it does not have the black worms
In it. I think those are a difference maker for a lot of fish.


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Old 02/15/2021, 02:37 AM   #798
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The dusky continues to hang around, it nips at brine occasionally and seems interested in food in the water column when I feed initially.

I definitely donít have the feeding response I need yet though. Plan to try live clams and shaved scallops this week and hopefully some newly arrived LRS fish frenzy.

Iím currently feeding reef frenzy and it does not have the black worms
In it. I think those are a difference maker for a lot of fish.
Hi Matt!

You may want to try Easy Masstick fish food. I believe Matt Pederson has used it with some success.

https://www.marinedepot.com/easy-mas...-40g-easyreefs

I won't help with the water column feed training but it at least can get them eating.


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Old 02/15/2021, 02:47 AM   #799
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Matt

It has been a week now since I got the Kleini and Mertensii. After that ammonia spike, I was afraid that their gills may have been damaged. But they are breathing normally and they are eating well. Every time I enter the room where my Display Tank is, they are at the glass wanting to be fed. I am feeding them twice a day. No signs of illness, pests or disease. I am wanting to add two or three more butterflies. I am looking at Heniochus singularis, Chaetodon rafflesi , Chaetodon decussatus, Chaetodo punctatofasciatus or the Chaetodo pelewensis. Do you have any concerns with any of these?

Thanks,

Dean

Dean,

You can look over this series of articles on Butterflyfish. They are a bit dated but most are still true for most specific species.

You can click on each section, good, medium, poor.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BFsBestWrst.htm


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Old 02/15/2021, 05:09 AM   #800
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Hi Matt!

You may want to try Easy Masstick fish food. I believe Matt Pederson has used it with some success.

https://www.marinedepot.com/easy-mas...-40g-easyreefs

I won't help with the water column feed training but it at least can get them eating.
Got it ordered, I'll report back on how it works. He's definitely picking at the live rock I put in there. Maybe you should some some acros my way to supplement the feeding effort...

Hope you and your tank are well.


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