Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 02/22/2011, 02:38 PM   #251
Christian J
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 152
When it comes to roughing up screens, I recall Paul B mentioned that he used cement in his trough. How about using things like kalk wasser to make the the screen more algae friendly substrate? Maybe that would even make roughing up unnecesary?


Christian J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/22/2011, 04:48 PM   #252
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,263
Blog Entries: 15
I'm not sure what Kalkwasser has to do with it. Roughing up the screen provides a physical area for the algae to attach and hold on. It has nothing to do with chemical reactions, and it is not a substrate from which the algae grows.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/22/2011, 06:00 PM   #253
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
I'm not sure what Kalkwasser has to do with it. Roughing up the screen provides a physical area for the algae to attach and hold on. It has nothing to do with chemical reactions, and it is not a substrate from which the algae grows.
Thank you for taking that one Floyd, I didn't know how to answer that one.

Christian, maybe you could elaborate?


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/22/2011, 09:55 PM   #254
fppf
Registered Member
 
fppf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 929
Woohoo!!! Only a day in and there are little green specs!
Never thought I would be happy to see algae!


fppf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/22/2011, 10:20 PM   #255
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
 
BluScrnOdeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 537
I know this is for phytoplankton, but they are all algae and i think would constitute them to being the same. I remembered reading this a while back because i'm about to get into growing my own phyto. This is why it is needed to have a 6hr dark cycle.

"Remember cellular growth and protein production occurs during the plants dark cycle and if we were to illuminate for 24hrs we would not increase our yield of phytoplanktons proportionally"
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...02/breeder.htm


BluScrnOdeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/22/2011, 10:20 PM   #256
kdirk
Registered Member
 
kdirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbncal View Post
Nice looking, very cool idea. Where did you find those light fixtures?
Staples


http://www.staples.com/Black-Goosene...product_571213


kdirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/22/2011, 10:58 PM   #257
g8gxp
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 685
how is everyone making the slit in the pvc pipe? i used a dremel and cut a 1/8 inch slit but i don't seem to be getting full coverage down the sheet. the water sheets well in the middle, but the sides seem to just get a bunch of little rivers of water. I've tried 4 or 5 different designs, the one i am using now is where i drilled little holes all the way across which seems to work, but the problem is that the algae is growing into the holes making it a pain to clean.

I know the slit is the right way, but i can't get the full coverage, is it because the pump isn't powerful enough? it's a maxijet 1200. or maybe it's that i'm using 1/2 inch pipe? too small diameter?


__________________
120G mixed reef, 6105's, Kent Nautilus. DIY LED array, Profilux 3.
g8gxp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/22/2011, 11:15 PM   #258
CLINTOS
Moved On
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: windsor,ontario Canada
Posts: 859
I really like kdirk design

Maybe a little bit of a thinner box so the light's are closer. unless it would increase the temp too much.


CLINTOS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/22/2011, 11:45 PM   #259
fppf
Registered Member
 
fppf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 929
Yeah I wonder if being near that window was a bad idea now.
I have my cycle reverse of the DT as everyone recommends. I wonder if the little bit of light that actually comes in the basement window will hinder the dark side, LOL. I was going to wrap the container in some foam insulation to prevent the condensation I'm getting now. That should block out most of the light.

I used 1" pipe for my cross tube.
To cut the slot I use a rotozip. The bits are 0.125" in diameter so it makes a perfect slot in one pass. I made a jig with a little 2x4 and 1x4 and clamped the pipe to the 2x4. One straight pass and done.


fppf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 05:40 AM   #260
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by g8gxp View Post
how is everyone making the slit in the pvc pipe? i used a dremel and cut a 1/8 inch slit but i don't seem to be getting full coverage down the sheet. the water sheets well in the middle, but the sides seem to just get a bunch of little rivers of water. I've tried 4 or 5 different designs, the one i am using now is where i drilled little holes all the way across which seems to work, but the problem is that the algae is growing into the holes making it a pain to clean.

I know the slit is the right way, but i can't get the full coverage, is it because the pump isn't powerful enough? it's a maxijet 1200. or maybe it's that i'm using 1/2 inch pipe? too small diameter?
I would say the flow is not strong enough. Also some times when your screen is roughed up unevenly it becomes a little wavy. This could also create even flow. Please post some pictures of your setup that will help us get a clearer understanding of what maybe happening.


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 05:41 AM   #261
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLINTOS View Post
I really like kdirk design

Maybe a little bit of a thinner box so the light's are closer. unless it would increase the temp too much.
The lights should always be ~4 inches away. Closer and you will burn/bleach the algae. The lights become too strong in one spot.


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 05:46 AM   #262
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by fppf View Post
Yeah I wonder if being near that window was a bad idea now.
I have my cycle reverse of the DT as everyone recommends. I wonder if the little bit of light that actually comes in the basement window will hinder the dark side, LOL. I was going to wrap the container in some foam insulation to prevent the condensation I'm getting now. That should block out most of the light.

I used 1" pipe for my cross tube.
To cut the slot I use a rotozip. The bits are 0.125" in diameter so it makes a perfect slot in one pass. I made a jig with a little 2x4 and 1x4 and clamped the pipe to the 2x4. One straight pass and done.
I would just cover them up just a little, you dont have to got crazy. Maybe you can spray paint the outside of the container? Foam for insulation would both block the light and help keep heat in or out.

Nice work with the rotozip!!


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 06:53 AM   #263
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
 
BluScrnOdeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 537
I just changed those lights out what, two-3 days ago. The green is exploding. I'll try to get a pic up tonight when i get home from work.


BluScrnOdeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 07:26 AM   #264
fppf
Registered Member
 
fppf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 929
Everything is foamed, more heat I keep in the less I need to pay for.


fppf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 07:32 AM   #265
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluScrnOdeth View Post
I just changed those lights out what, two-3 days ago. The green is exploding. I'll try to get a pic up tonight when i get home from work.
Great to hear things are working well for you. Please post pictures as soon as you can. Also if you can post new ones each week before you clean your screen it will be helpful for others to see a screen maturing over a couple of months. thanks for posting!


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 08:43 AM   #266
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by fppf View Post
Everything is foamed, more heat I keep in the less I need to pay for.
Yeah, what type of foam are you using. I have been thinking about backing my tank with foam for a while now. Also want to completely cover my sump.


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 08:55 AM   #267
fppf
Registered Member
 
fppf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 929
Depends on the area and if I need to get in there.
If its really irregular I and I never need to work on it I use spray foam in the can. For pipes, foam pipe insulation. For containers and flat places I found this aluminum backed self stick foam insulation for pipes. It is like 10-12" wide and sticks to the bins pretty well.


fppf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 08:58 AM   #268
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,263
Blog Entries: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by g8gxp View Post
how is everyone making the slit in the pvc pipe? i used a dremel and cut a 1/8 inch slit but i don't seem to be getting full coverage down the sheet. the water sheets well in the middle, but the sides seem to just get a bunch of little rivers of water. I've tried 4 or 5 different designs, the one i am using now is where i drilled little holes all the way across which seems to work, but the problem is that the algae is growing into the holes making it a pain to clean.

I know the slit is the right way, but i can't get the full coverage, is it because the pump isn't powerful enough? it's a maxijet 1200. or maybe it's that i'm using 1/2 inch pipe? too small diameter?
A 1/2" pipe restricts the flow significantly. You have to remember that the flow is proportional to the cross-sectional area, but that fluid dynamics states that a more restricted flow channel will contribute additional friction that will further restrict flow. You need 3/4" or larger pipe. You will see a dramatic increase in GPH from a 3/4" pipe versus 1/2" pipe from that pump.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 09:28 AM   #269
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
 
Floyd R Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 4,263
Blog Entries: 15
Here's some math on pipe diameters:

1" inner diameter PVC pipe has a cross-sectional area of 0.785 square inches

3/4" pipe area is 0.442, or 56% of the area

1/2" pipe area is 0.196, or 44% of the area of a 3/4" pipe, and 25% of the area of a 1" pipe

This is just the cross sectional area. If the same pump were used on each of these pipes, and that pump had a flow rate at 0 ft head pressure (no deduction) or 1200 GPH, then the rate of flow would be:

1200 GPH * (231 cubic inches/gallon) * (1 hour / 3600 seconds) = 77 cubic inches/second of flow produced by powerhead

1": 77 cu in/sec / 0.785 sq in = 98 inches/sec

3/4": 77 / 0.442 = 174 in/s

1/2": 77/0.196 = 392 in/s (that's 32 feet/second, or 22 miles per hour)

There's no way you could get that flow rate from that pump, is just doesn't have the power to produce that much head pressure.

This same principle applies to many pumps, it's the reason why I only get 433 GPH at 4' head from my Mag 12 when it should be 800-1000 GPH. My return hose is 3/4" when it should be 1.5". This is a tank issue as well, because the bulkheads are 3/4" and 1", I guess manufacturers are assuming that everyone uses the 3/4" for the return pump and 1" for the drain. That means just about everyone out there is running pumps at probably 1/2 of their rated flow and they don't even know it. No wonder everyone needs powerheads in their display.


__________________
Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
Floyd R Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 09:58 AM   #270
CLINTOS
Moved On
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: windsor,ontario Canada
Posts: 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by srusso View Post
The lights should always be ~4 inches away. Closer and you will burn/bleach the algae. The lights become too strong in one spot.
makes sense


CLINTOS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 10:09 AM   #271
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
Once again Floyd, your contributions to this thread are priceless! Thank you for that last one!


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 10:12 AM   #272
fppf
Registered Member
 
fppf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 929
Just my rule of thumb and opinion, take it for what its worth.

I don't use anything smaller then 1" on any of my plumbing for the tank.
If I'm doing feed and return lines for a filter I don't go smaller then 1 1/2".

I ran 2" for my feed and return because the run from the sump to the tank is over 30 feet with 12 feet of head. Yes, I have a large return pump.

Most times I go at least one size pipe larger for returns so I don't have any backup issues. For my main return I just ran 2" as well because I know I really did not need 2" for the feed.

The nice thing about having a feed that large and long, by time the water makes it to the tank any micro bubbles are long gone, LOL


fppf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 10:12 AM   #273
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
http://reefcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26

Here are hundreds of scrubber designs... I would post them all there but it would take me hours to do. Thank you goes to SantaMonica for building this list and all the people whose scrubbers appear there.


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 03:07 PM   #274
BluScrnOdeth
Darin Schmidt
 
BluScrnOdeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 537
As promised. Here is what it looks like just 4 days after adding the warm 2700k lights. Not too bad,expected less cyno but its a lot better than what it was.




BluScrnOdeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/2011, 04:00 PM   #275
srusso
Registered Member
 
srusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 1,869
Great! Growth is much better then expected for 4 days! It helped that the screen was running for sometime before the lighting was changed. Please post your water tests if you can.


__________________
70 Gallon Oceanic | Coral Reef | Apex Controller | Algae Scrubber |Started 8/14/2010
General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics > Algae Scrubber Basics Thread
Basics Write Up - Post #1 | Quick Troubleshooting - Post #1902 | Alternate/Updated Sizing - Post #2723 | Latest Summary - Post #3251 - #3264

Last edited by srusso; 02/23/2011 at 04:41 PM.
srusso is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
algae scrubber/heavy metals charles matthews Randy Holmes-Farley 6 11/03/2016 09:32 PM
xenia scrubber instead of algae scrubber? dolt SPS Keepers 40 04/07/2011 12:34 PM
Try again: Is anybody running an algae scrubber as primary filter. Frick-n-Frags Reef Discussion 166 08/03/2008 04:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:19 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.