Reef Central Online Community
Tunze USA

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 01/13/2009, 07:14 PM   #126
lanxang
Registered Member
 
lanxang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Stockton, Ca
Posts: 1,393
DD = Down Draft

here is an example

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cap/raid/skimmers/orig_dd/


lanxang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 07:34 PM   #127
dphins
Last place no more!
 
dphins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Godfrey, IL
Posts: 3,164
What he said.


__________________
I work with a bunch of monkeys!

Current Tank Info: 120 rr tank. Hamilton Cebu light fixture.. Apex controller. ATB 840 v1.5 skimmer. Lifereef calcium reactor with Geo 2nd chamber. Tunze 6100, 6105 and 6045. 40 breeder sump with eheim 1262 return. Pacific coast chiller...
dphins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 07:36 PM   #128
spongebobby
Registered Member
 
spongebobby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: S.E.M.O
Posts: 880



__________________
210 gal. mixed Reef
Reeflo 200 PRO KIT
1 VORTECH MP40W Gen. 2
GEO Kalk Reactor
Aquactinics 72" Constellation
300lbs Gulf-Keys-Fiji-Pukani LR
200 lbs. LS
spongebobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 08:38 PM   #129
gasman059
The OG mad scientist
 
gasman059's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SOFLA
Posts: 10,308
Quote:
Originally posted by moondoggy4
Sorry for the dumb question, but here it goes, What is DD? gasman059
HTH
Down draft skimmers the water goes first to an injector system, where the water is narrowed into a smaller jet and propelled over bioballs, which break air into the water to make the bubbles in the mixing area.

They use a big pump to inject water down a narrow tube at high velocity, usually work best with pressure rated pumps.

Crashing water forced through the bio-balls creates very effective foam, which is then channeled into a box below before continuing on its way to rise and accumulate skimmate via a larger reaction chamber.

IMO well suited for large aquariums and heavy bio-loads due to the amount of water they process

CONS:
Expensive to purchase and operate
Difficult to clean and service- Necessarily large and cumbersome by design- Noise -large pumps = more watts and heat to the system. HTH


__________________
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
1985-present

Current Tank Info: Officially lurking!
gasman059 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 08:40 PM   #130
GrouperGenius
Liscensed Unit
 
GrouperGenius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hudson,Florida
Posts: 2,948
All that matters to me, is that the I-tech I now own kicks the crap out of every other skimmer I have ever had. And I have had several over the last 15+ years.


__________________
Tankless at the moment...but still knows a thing or two.
GrouperGenius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 08:43 PM   #131
gasman059
The OG mad scientist
 
gasman059's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SOFLA
Posts: 10,308
nice avatar!

I agree if it works why not right.


__________________
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
1985-present

Current Tank Info: Officially lurking!
gasman059 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 09:21 PM   #132
W Ellis
Premium Member
 
W Ellis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 1,585
Quote:
Originally posted by gasman059
I'm always very skeptical when some of us reefers post skimmer pics for comparison. there's no doubt that we are all talking about a cylindrical piece of acrylic that emits bubbles but
comparing skimmate over 3 days and posting pics is far from real in fact is just simply inadequate.

Its hard for me to believe big companies that spend tons of $$ in R&D can get this wrong and some small one-2 man operations can get it better with little or no experience.

Not much to buildig a skimmer in fact pretty much everything can skim. But the CS and quality of materials as well as durability and so forth makes the difference IMHO.


Buying a skimmer is like buying a car some people like the latest greatest new convertible with all the new kinks and problems, some others like their old truck that has all of them problems worked out and does what it is supposed to.

Over the years I've found many designs that do what they are supposed to and really like DD's as well as becketts, then needlewheels becasme the fab....

Recently installed a mini BK200 and it does what its supposed to do. is it better than any of my old DD's maybe maybe not, is much more effieicent and trouble free. Does it produce more skimmate over 3 days head to head the answer is I can make any skimmer look better than any other by fine tuning it LOLOLOL.

After the fab comes and goes ( example Spazz volcanoes and many many others over the years) guys and companies like GEO/deltec/BK/Tunze/ and many others will always be around to continue their R&D( reseacrh and development) and provide customer service and great quaility products.

just my 2 cents.
R&D has been going on with these skimmers for the past year. Just because its a come doesnt mean its an exact replica. Changes throughout that year were made to the cones, The bubble plate, multiple pumps were tested, etc. It may be a small company in relation to the big name companies but they all started small too. I can guarantee you that they are not some fly by night company and will always stand behind their product. I would put these skimmers up against any of the big name skimmers anyday and save a fortune doing it.


Quote:
Originally posted by mcliffy2
Who needs R&D when you let someone else do it for you, then replicate their researched design not judging, just saying....
Being a patent pusher are you ATB's patent pusher and got your skimmer for free? Is that why you are in such an uproar that there is another cone on the market?


__________________
Will
W Ellis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 09:36 PM   #133
mavgi
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: queens n.y
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally posted by W Ellis
R&D has been going on with these skimmers for the past year. Just because its a come doesnt mean its an exact replica. Changes throughout that year were made to the cones, The bubble plate, multiple pumps were tested, etc. It may be a small company in relation to the big name companies but they all started small too. I can guarantee you that they are not some fly by night company and will always stand behind their product. I would put these skimmers up against any of the big name skimmers anyday and save a fortune doing it.




Being a patent pusher are you ATB's patent pusher and got your skimmer for free? Is that why you are in such an uproar that there is another cone on the market?
I don't think that anyone can patent the con ....... it's exist even here in the usa before ppl think to make this shape for skimmer .


mavgi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 09:38 PM   #134
mflamb
Registered Member
 
mflamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pasadena, Texas
Posts: 8,422
Quote:
Originally posted by gasman059
Its hard for me to believe big companies that spend tons of $$ in R&D can get this wrong and some small one-2 man operations can get it better with little or no experience.

Not much to buildig a skimmer in fact pretty much everything can skim. But the CS and quality of materials as well as durability and so forth makes the difference IMHO.
No one said the big company got it wrong, but the small operation did get it better. And the small company has lots and lots of experience. FAOIS is owned/operated by a reefing genius with superior CS.


__________________
Click on my red house to see my 390 and 300 build thread. Those are my last 2 tanks in Tampa. Now in Pasadena waiting to buy a house to set up my next tank....anemones and clowns...probably a 3x3 150 gallon.
mflamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 09:42 PM   #135
leonel04
Premium Member
 
leonel04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 203
All i have to say is:

VIVA I-TECH..............


leonel04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 09:44 PM   #136
gasman059
The OG mad scientist
 
gasman059's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SOFLA
Posts: 10,308
Quote:
R&D has been going on with these skimmers for the past year. Just because its a come doesnt mean its an exact replica. Changes throughout that year were made to the cones, The bubble plate, multiple pumps were tested, etc. It may be a small company in relation to the big name companies but they all started small too. I can guarantee you that they are not some fly by night company and will always stand behind their product. I would put these skimmers up against any of the big name skimmers anyday and save a fortune doing it.
thx for info-appreciated!


__________________
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
1985-present

Current Tank Info: Officially lurking!
gasman059 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 09:50 PM   #137
gasman059
The OG mad scientist
 
gasman059's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SOFLA
Posts: 10,308
Quote:
Originally posted by mflamb
No one said the big company got it wrong, but the small operation did get it better. And the small company has lots and lots of experience. FAOIS is owned/operated by a reefing genius with superior CS.
guys not trying to create any controversy here lol. I'm sure that is the case since many of d customers have posted here standing behind d product.

Surely not as long(experience) as many of the above companies mentioned.

I would love to give this conical a try - would u guys be so kind and give me the specs in terms of footprint and so forth to measure as well as pricing of the unit that would be "rated for 250 heavy stocked tank.

THX


__________________
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
1985-present

Current Tank Info: Officially lurking!
gasman059 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 09:59 PM   #138
mavgi
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: queens n.y
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally posted by gasman059
guys not trying to create any controversy here lol. I'm sure that is the case since many of d customers have posted here standing behind d product.

Surely not as long(experience) as many of the above companies mentioned.

I would love to give this conical a try - would u guys be so kind and give me the specs in terms of footprint and so forth to measure as well as pricing of the unit that would be "rated for 250 heavy stocked tank.

THX
if you tak 3 con skimmer that have the same dimensions (body,neck ,etc.) and same pump on them it dosen't matter what brand name will be on them , they will skim the same .....


mavgi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 10:07 PM   #139
W Ellis
Premium Member
 
W Ellis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 1,585
Quote:
Originally posted by gasman059

I would love to give this conical a try - would u guys be so kind and give me the specs in terms of footprint and so forth to measure as well as pricing of the unit that would be "rated for 250 heavy stocked tank.

THX
I would run the I-Tech Large on a heavy stocked 250g. I am currently running 1 on my 300g and it is working great. Height is 24" and foot print is 16"x12". I put my kill-a-watt on it the other day and the pump is pulling 53=54 watts. Im itching to get my hands on a air flow meter to see what they are pulling for air. I cant remember the exact price but i believe it is a little over $800.


__________________
Will
W Ellis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/13/2009, 10:21 PM   #140
mightymizz
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 304
Well, I have an order in for the small. I am not sure what pump Im going for since the Tunze will be out soon, and I think they are going to test the Tunzes on the I-tech. My system is about to get the rock in it so I am not in desperate mode to get the skimmer in.
Should I wait to see how the Tunze performs, or just go with the recommended DAS pump?
What depth of water would you think the SMALL I-tech should sit in?

Thanks all, it will take some time, but when I get pictures, Ill post too!


mightymizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 12:01 AM   #141
flat broke
Registered Member
 
flat broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 762
The small is comparable in size to the ATB Nano, so you might look at pump options in that airflow range. No one has mentioned the Eheim compact pump that's now out. It might push too much water, but with some reducer work, maybe that could be aleviated.

As far as operating depth, I was told that they worked in 5.5-6" range. Obviously that could change a little depending on the pump used.

Does anyone else happen to have any solid info on the Tunze 9410 vs. the 9420? The 9420 appears to be their answer to the Sicce, but the pic of the 9410 looks the same. Are they just running a different magnet and pinwheel on the 9410 to reduce the throughput?

As an alternative pump choice, I'm only getting 18-20 SCFH out of my Sicce with the Octo pw. If the water volume through the pump was reduced, the air figures might work in the small/100. Possibly a smaller i.d. reducer coupled with the pw offered by Reef Specialty on the Octo Extremes could be the ticket to detuning a Sicce to work in this application.

Chris


__________________
"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan 6/6/1984 Normandy

Current Tank Info: 45 Cad Lights shallow with mixed corals. Reef Breeders LED, SCA 302, WP25, WP10, , AC jr. etc... To think that someone told me this hobby could be kept simple ;)
flat broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 07:33 AM   #142
SHOmuchFUN
Registered Member
 
SHOmuchFUN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Vermont
Posts: 4,461
Would you all recommend a small for a 75gal SPS tank with:
1 yellow tang
2 ocellaris
1 leopard wrasse
1 Royal Gramma
1 Starry Blenny
1 cleaner goby

Or save up for a medium and a sicce?

Also, why is the footprint of the I-tech med. so much SMALLER than the MSX 1s? The MSX 1s footprint is HUGE! I certainly can't fit a 1S into my sump, but by the specs, I could fit an I-Tech easily... But they use the same pump?


__________________
Erik Engstrom
President, Vermont Marine Aquarists.

Current Tank Info: Custom 180gal, 6x80w ATI T-5s, (2) Tunze 6025, Vortec MP40w, MSX200 w/ red demon, controlled by AcJR.
SHOmuchFUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 08:13 AM   #143
reefrubble
Premium Member
 
reefrubble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fort Myers , Fl.
Posts: 5,718
A lot of R&D went into my I-Tech skimmer . This is the only Dart Needle Wheel cone skimmer , on the market ( That I Know Of ) .


Close to a year of testing , and design changes , but what a skimmer it is . It is way over sized , for my system , but I don't think you can over skim . IMO

Ted


__________________
Ted
Proud member of SHARK (Spring Hill Area Reef Keepers )
Proud member of TBRC (Tampa Bay Reef Club )
Save the reefs , Grow your own

Current Tank Info: Marineland 300 DD Tank Custom metal stand , and canopy DIY LED lighting I-Tech Super Beast skimmer . I do not have a tank at this time . I sold the 300 Gal. system
reefrubble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 08:35 AM   #144
saltydragon
Registered Member
 
saltydragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Westbury L.i
Posts: 402
dam...looks like a pretty nice skimmer...


saltydragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 10:11 AM   #145
gasman059
The OG mad scientist
 
gasman059's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SOFLA
Posts: 10,308
Quote:
Originally posted by reefrubble
A lot of R&D went into my I-Tech skimmer . This is the only Dart Needle Wheel cone skimmer , on the market ( That I Know Of ) .


Close to a year of testing , and design changes , but what a skimmer it is . It is way over sized , for my system , but I don't think you can over skim . IMO

Ted
Thx Ted for your info. Would u be so kind and direct me to more specs and info. Pm me if u feel is inappropiate for the forum THX!


__________________
There's a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".
1985-present

Current Tank Info: Officially lurking!
gasman059 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 11:59 AM   #146
flat broke
Registered Member
 
flat broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally posted by SHOmuchFUN
Would you all recommend a small for a 75gal SPS tank with:
1 yellow tang
2 ocellaris
1 leopard wrasse
1 Royal Gramma
1 Starry Blenny
1 cleaner goby

Or save up for a medium and a sicce?

Also, why is the footprint of the I-tech med. so much SMALLER than the MSX 1s? The MSX 1s footprint is HUGE! I certainly can't fit a 1S into my sump, but by the specs, I could fit an I-Tech easily... But they use the same pump?
The MSX 1S is the same cone as the MSX 2S which runs 2 Sicces. If they would have taylored the body to the output of one Sicce, the footprint would likely be smaller. I'm not a skimmer expert, but from a general design standpoint either the 1S, the 2S or perhaps both models would have to pose some sort of compromise in efficiency with regard to the match between throughput and volume.

As for your question about tank size/load appropriateness, compare your livestock list to the current tank of the month. I believe that tank runs an earlier version of the 100/small.

Chris


__________________
"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan 6/6/1984 Normandy

Current Tank Info: 45 Cad Lights shallow with mixed corals. Reef Breeders LED, SCA 302, WP25, WP10, , AC jr. etc... To think that someone told me this hobby could be kept simple ;)
flat broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 12:42 PM   #147
mordibv
Registered Member
 
mordibv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Western Mass
Posts: 1,499
As soon as John gets back with me I will be ordering the small body . I will be running my DAS BX 1 pump on the unit . It is a Aquabee 2000/1 . He advised that he has tried the same pump I have . He stated they work very well together .

The foot print he stated while also being safe is
12 ½” x 8 3/4 for the small with a 6 inch cone base .

He answered my email after Store hours the same day . I look forward to hearing from him .


mordibv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 12:43 PM   #148
johnnyblaze313
Registered Member
 
johnnyblaze313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 420
Quote:
Originally posted by flat broke
The MSX 1S is the same cone as the MSX 2S which runs 2 Sicces. If they would have taylored the body to the output of one Sicce, the footprint would likely be smaller. I'm not a skimmer expert, but from a general design standpoint either the 1S, the 2S or perhaps both models would have to pose some sort of compromise in efficiency with regard to the match between throughput and volume.

As for your question about tank size/load appropriateness, compare your livestock list to the current tank of the month. I believe that tank runs an earlier version of the 100/small.

Chris
Somthing to keep in mind is the sicce can be a totally different pump depending on how it is set up.
Pinwheel=160gph/30-35scfh
Meshwheel=240gph/40-50scfh

I think this was swc thoughts with the 1 or 2 pump option.
Although looking at this theres going to be another option for smaller systems with limited space. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1548002


johnnyblaze313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 12:51 PM   #149
SHOmuchFUN
Registered Member
 
SHOmuchFUN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Vermont
Posts: 4,461
Quote:
Originally posted by mordibv
As soon as John gets back with me I will be ordering the small body . I will be running my DAS BX 1 pump on the unit . It is a Aquabee 2000/1 . He advised that he has tried the same pump I have . He stated they work very well together .

The foot print he stated while also being safe is
12 ½” x 8 3/4 for the small with a 6 inch cone base .

He answered my email after Store hours the same day . I look forward to hearing from him .
I will be doing the same... I have an order in with him for a Small now and will have to decide on a pump.

Maybe I can retro the hydrofoamer tunze pump I have on my 9010 to work in the cone until the new tunze pumps come out.


SHOmuchFUN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/14/2009, 01:19 PM   #150
flat broke
Registered Member
 
flat broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 762
Quote:
Originally posted by johnnyblaze313
Somthing to keep in mind is the sicce can be a totally different pump depending on how it is set up.
Pinwheel=160gph/30-35scfh
Meshwheel=240gph/40-50scfh

I think this was swc thoughts with the 1 or 2 pump option.
Although looking at this theres going to be another option for smaller systems with limited space. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1548002
You bring up a very valid point about the multiple personalities of the Sicce. But to the best of my knowledge, no one has been able to come up with consitent airflow capability by altering mesh or pinwheels. We know that pinwheels run less air than properly meshed setups, and that the MSX pinwheels have been shown to run a bit more air than the RS ones, but there is a great deal of inconsistency from one mesh job to the next. I only mention that because using the mesh to "tune" the pump to a skimmer body puts a lot of trust and a high expectation on the customer to ensure the product performs as expected.

Out of curiosity, how/where did you get the GPH numbers that accompany the airflow numbers you posted? I'm somewhat surpised that the water throughput increases in a non-linear fashion as the air increases. The numbers you posted would indicate that the Sicce has a better air/water ratio at lower throughput levels. If your GPH/Airflow numbers are accurate that holds some hope that further restriction possibly with a smaller diameter pinwheel/meshwheel could reduce throughput and increase the air/water ratio, making the pump better suited to smaller skimmers.

Chris


__________________
"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan 6/6/1984 Normandy

Current Tank Info: 45 Cad Lights shallow with mixed corals. Reef Breeders LED, SCA 302, WP25, WP10, , AC jr. etc... To think that someone told me this hobby could be kept simple ;)
flat broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:30 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.