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Old 04/28/2013, 09:40 PM   #426
Buganddoug
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Paul, Have you looked on Tower Hobbies?


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Old 04/29/2013, 09:09 AM   #427
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On both my MP 40's the magnet disk on the dry side was waaay out of balance. This cannot be good for both the life and the noise of the bearings. I took mine out and balanced it with a balancer that is sold for the model helicopter hobby...used to balance rotating bits on a model heli which MUST be just about perfect. I can honestly say that I cannot hear my MP 40's from 6 foot away....new bearings and balancing totally transformed them.

Can you also go into a bit more detail on how exactly you balanced them? I definitely have on magnet that is known to be out of balance and would like to find a way to fix it?

Many thanks for any help.......


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Old 04/29/2013, 06:08 PM   #428
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First you need to go to a local Model aero hobby shop and buy a prop. balancer.

Having taken the MP 40 apart, mount the disc magnet in the prop balancer and you will immediately see which is the "heavy part". when the disc has stabilised in the balancer, mark the low point and using a 1/16 drill, make a small drill hole in the perimeter of the disc at the low point.....be careful, dont use excessive force and only drill a small hole about 1/16 deep...and clean the magnetic dust residue with a cotton bud or a toothpick...'cause it wont just fall of of its own accord !!

Then re-balance and again mark the low point. Repeat the process and drill again.

You will find that after a few adjustments, the disc will remain stationary at any point of rotation...it is now balanced.

The instructions that come with prop balancers are very clear as to the process...and there is a ton of help on Internet..just Google prop balancing.

I am sure that Vortech could easily do his at the manufacturing stage, but it would of course add quite a bit to the cost of an already expensive bit of equipment...so they stick to their price point and expect us to tolerate the noise/wear problems of out-of-balance.

Maybe the balancing process is fiddly and time consuming but for me, the results were excellent.

If you like to spend time and effort messing around with equipment it is a worthwhile thing to do. But I accept that not everybody wants to go this far......its an individual choice

BTW The balancer I used was "Precision Magnetic Balancer from Top-Flite" I bought it here in Aus but it is American made.

Cheers


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Old 04/29/2013, 08:30 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heliman View Post
First you need to go to a local Model aero hobby shop and buy a prop. balancer.

Having taken the MP 40 apart, mount the disc magnet in the prop balancer and you will immediately see which is the "heavy part". when the disc has stabilised in the balancer, mark the low point and using a 1/16 drill, make a small drill hole in the perimeter of the disc at the low point.....be careful, dont use excessive force and only drill a small hole about 1/16 deep...and clean the magnetic dust residue with a cotton bud or a toothpick...'cause it wont just fall of of its own accord !!

Then re-balance and again mark the low point. Repeat the process and drill again.

You will find that after a few adjustments, the disc will remain stationary at any point of rotation...it is now balanced.

The instructions that come with prop balancers are very clear as to the process...and there is a ton of help on Internet..just Google prop balancing.

I am sure that Vortech could easily do his at the manufacturing stage, but it would of course add quite a bit to the cost of an already expensive bit of equipment...so they stick to their price point and expect us to tolerate the noise/wear problems of out-of-balance.

Maybe the balancing process is fiddly and time consuming but for me, the results were excellent.

If you like to spend time and effort messing around with equipment it is a worthwhile thing to do. But I accept that not everybody wants to go this far......its an individual choice

BTW The balancer I used was "Precision Magnetic Balancer from Top-Flite" I bought it here in Aus but it is American made.

Cheers



THANK YOU for your detail reply to my question......I will definitely look into balancing my magnet.

Cheers...........


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Old 04/29/2013, 08:49 PM   #430
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I see them on Tower hobbies in the $20-$30 price range.


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Old 05/22/2013, 03:45 AM   #431
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While trying to hammer out the axle from the bearing, i have bend the stainless steel screw in the middle holding the black magnet. Who knows what kind of dimensions the screw has so i can replace it.. At the moment the magnet is placed at an angle on the motor making the noise terrible of course.

PS: i know, i was in a hurry and used a metal hammer, stupid........


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Old 05/23/2013, 04:11 PM   #432
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A little bump for this subject.. i ordered some m3 bolts of 12mm (metric) to replace the beaten bolt. But they don't seem to fit. What size bolt would i need?


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Old 05/23/2013, 05:54 PM   #433
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As the Vortech is Americam made, you wont get metric bolts to fit (as you discovered)...at a guess I suspect the bolts would be UNC or UNF, but I dont have one lying about to measure up.

Alternatively, you could buy 3 mm Bottom Tap and recut the threads in the shaft to 3 mm....but be careful, you could stuff up the whole shaft !!!


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Old 06/30/2013, 08:36 AM   #434
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ok

ok :FUN2:


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Old 07/09/2013, 10:29 AM   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heliman View Post
First you need to go to a local Model aero hobby shop and buy a prop. balancer.

Having taken the MP 40 apart, mount the disc magnet in the prop balancer and you will immediately see which is the "heavy part". when the disc has stabilised in the balancer, mark the low point and using a 1/16 drill, make a small drill hole in the perimeter of the disc at the low point.....be careful, dont use excessive force and only drill a small hole about 1/16 deep...and clean the magnetic dust residue with a cotton bud or a toothpick...'cause it wont just fall of of its own accord !!

Then re-balance and again mark the low point. Repeat the process and drill again.

You will find that after a few adjustments, the disc will remain stationary at any point of rotation...it is now balanced.

The instructions that come with prop balancers are very clear as to the process...and there is a ton of help on Internet..just Google prop balancing.

I am sure that Vortech could easily do his at the manufacturing stage, but it would of course add quite a bit to the cost of an already expensive bit of equipment...so they stick to their price point and expect us to tolerate the noise/wear problems of out-of-balance.

Maybe the balancing process is fiddly and time consuming but for me, the results were excellent.

If you like to spend time and effort messing around with equipment it is a worthwhile thing to do. But I accept that not everybody wants to go this far......its an individual choice

BTW The balancer I used was "Precision Magnetic Balancer from Top-Flite" I bought it here in Aus but it is American made.

Cheers
Fantastic!! This is a crucial part of the repair, It funny how no one considered this in the entire thread. My magnet disk also vibrates and seeing as I have a prop balancer in my tool box... I shall endeavor to rectify the imbalance. I have the MP40W and have changed out the bearing twice now. Both occasions I resorted to the old hammer and a 22mm socket to get the bearings on. Mine is very very tight, no screw driver will ever get them off. As someone has stated earlier, I believe I also have one of those stupidly tight units. I ordered two bearings from RC bearings and I also got two *** bearings from my local bearing shop. I shall install the *** ones first and see about noise then if no good I will try the RC bearings pair. My believe is that my method can be improved upon greatly and by using a bearing press I would be able to only apply pressure onto the inner race. That said, slightly chilling the rotor would not be a bad idea either. Secondly I have noticed that there is a big difference in how tight you do your bolts up. Tight equaled noisy for me and slightly looser made it quieter. I will try the thinner glass idea as well. I too believe that thicker glass spacer would cause more lateral force on the unit. I only have one washer on the glass side and only two on the non magnet side.

Personally I cannot believe such an expensive piece of kit can to have these issues. We all know there are simple manufacturing improvements that can be made that being mag. balance and bearing quality improvements. Ultimately if the magnet and bearings set could be sold as a replacement item... well we can dream..

I shall report back on the bearing change out and which worked better. I have the MP40 on a 100Gal and itís in our living room. My system is almost silent so the addition of this boisterous MP40 certainly has not gone down well with my Wife. For the money I recon this equipment should be silent and stay silent!!! I think this is a fantastic thread however and well done to everyone who shared they're findings.


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Old 07/09/2013, 10:31 AM   #436
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The other set of bearings i wanted to mention beggins wit a F and the second letter is a A and then the last one is a G... Nice work there guys... i mean really!!


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Old 07/09/2013, 01:52 PM   #437
Midnightt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heliman View Post
First you need to go to a local Model aero hobby shop and buy a prop. balancer.

Having taken the MP 40 apart, mount the disc magnet in the prop balancer and you will immediately see which is the "heavy part". when the disc has stabilised in the balancer, mark the low point and using a 1/16 drill, make a small drill hole in the perimeter of the disc at the low point.....be careful, dont use excessive force and only drill a small hole about 1/16 deep...and clean the magnetic dust residue with a cotton bud or a toothpick...'cause it wont just fall of of its own accord !!

Then re-balance and again mark the low point. Repeat the process and drill again.

You will find that after a few adjustments, the disc will remain stationary at any point of rotation...it is now balanced.

The instructions that come with prop balancers are very clear as to the process...and there is a ton of help on Internet..just Google prop balancing.

I am sure that Vortech could easily do his at the manufacturing stage, but it would of course add quite a bit to the cost of an already expensive bit of equipment...so they stick to their price point and expect us to tolerate the noise/wear problems of out-of-balance.

Maybe the balancing process is fiddly and time consuming but for me, the results were excellent.

If you like to spend time and effort messing around with equipment it is a worthwhile thing to do. But I accept that not everybody wants to go this far......its an individual choice

BTW The balancer I used was "Precision Magnetic Balancer from Top-Flite" I bought it here in Aus but it is American made.

Cheers
I'm actually shocked they wouldn't be balanced from the factory. Any pictures detailing your process?


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Old 07/09/2013, 04:12 PM   #438
Buganddoug
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For the ones who did balanced there pumps and difference?


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Old 07/10/2013, 04:12 AM   #439
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I will post photo's of my balance process as well as report back on the bearing press on. Pressed them on today will install tomorrow.


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Old 07/10/2013, 08:53 AM   #440
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Look, Ecotech pumps do not get supplied with the best bearings which is sad. However a proper and slightly better bearing should and is hope, would last a year. I would have no problem replacing them every 12 months if I had to. But does anyone perhaps know what the Votech pumps standard factory bearing are?


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Old 07/10/2013, 05:10 PM   #441
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All done. Not bad but I might still do another change. The RC bearings are in the mail. As for the balance job... Good luck, brings magnet you'll have your hands full with trying to get the metal shavings off. I used sticky tape. It's not totally balanced but I'm happy with it. I personally don't believe the vortech can be "dead silent" but close to it yes. Once I install the RC bearings I will post again.

As for pressing on the bearings. Only use something that will only apply pressure directly on the inner race. Any other way and you'll stuff the bearing. That's if you are one of those who needs a press to get them on. The bearings I just fitted are the fire mentioned ones that our friendly forum bosses decided to sensor based on what it sounds like. No it's not a bigamist bearing brand it just isF.A.G Bearings.

I'm pretty sure the RC bearings will be better quality.
O and one more thing. Not sure if anyone noticed this but if you tighten up the three short bold vs. leaving them slightly on the loose side... It makes a huge difference in the noise resonating through the shell. I decided to stick three small bits of the soft Velcro on the silver cap that the long bolt go into. That way padding the cap from the drive unit. It helped heaps and I could do the little bolts up tight without the resonance noise through the cap. Give it a shot....


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Old 08/21/2013, 06:58 PM   #442
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Hi guys, I recently bought 2 used mp10w's and one of them had a pretty noisy dry side. No biggie, I had seen this thread before so I jumped back in it and tore the dry side apart. Now that I have it apart, I'm worried that I might be hosed as it may not be the bearings making the noise. Take a look at the attached pic, one side of the magnet is worn through the black coating. Looks like it could be the magnet itself rubbing... what do you all think?

Also, I cannot spot any distinctive markings on the two bearings. I see no letters or numbers and am not sure what size to purchase... assuming I go forward with the bearing replacement. Depending on your opinion on the magnet, I may have to buy a new dry side.

Thanks all!

Andres


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Old 08/22/2013, 02:28 PM   #443
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Or, could the worn magnet be caused by a bearing being so far out of whack that it's allowing the magnet to touch? Anyone? opinions?

And does anyone have any insight as to what bearings I'd need to order? I still can't find any size info on these.

Any feedback would be great as I'm itching to pull the trigger on either new bearings or a whole new dry side before too long. I'm running on only one mp10 right now and would like to get the second back up and going asap.

Thanks guys!
Andres

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Originally Posted by anoriega211 View Post
Hi guys, I recently bought 2 used mp10w's and one of them had a pretty noisy dry side. No biggie, I had seen this thread before so I jumped back in it and tore the dry side apart. Now that I have it apart, I'm worried that I might be hosed as it may not be the bearings making the noise. Take a look at the attached pic, one side of the magnet is worn through the black coating. Looks like it could be the magnet itself rubbing... what do you all think?

Also, I cannot spot any distinctive markings on the two bearings. I see no letters or numbers and am not sure what size to purchase... assuming I go forward with the bearing replacement. Depending on your opinion on the magnet, I may have to buy a new dry side.

Thanks all!

Andres



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Old 08/22/2013, 05:48 PM   #444
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Originally Posted by anoriega211 View Post
And does anyone have any insight as to what bearings I'd need to order? I still can't find any size info on these.
The MP10 bearings are mentioned several places in this thread. I believe these are the ones you would be looking for however (2 per MP10):

http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-...14x5-SMR147ZZ5


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Old 08/22/2013, 06:41 PM   #445
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Thanks Hilgert. I had scanned, albeit too quickly, over the 18 pages but missed where the size was noted. I was also nervous as I had read that the bearing sizes differ between some mp10's. Well, after actually thinking about it, I measured the ones I have and the do indeed match the size you sent. Thank you for the link!

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Originally Posted by hilgert View Post
The MP10 bearings are mentioned several places in this thread. I believe these are the ones you would be looking for however (2 per MP10):

http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-...14x5-SMR147ZZ5



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Old 08/23/2013, 10:50 AM   #446
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Note that I have not [yet] done this...but likely I will at some point. I might go ahead and order the bearings now just to have them ready.

***Question for everyone that HAS done the fix with the aforementioned bearings for the MP10: Would you do this proactively (does it help with new units to quiet them down), or wait until it's a larger issue?

Reason I ask is that mine are very quiet from a vibration standpoint, but I can hear them "whine" up and down in speed (I use reef crest mode). It's not irritating...just a noise you get used to. Actually, it sounds kind of cool.


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Old 09/22/2013, 12:39 AM   #447
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Very nice thread guys. It should be a sticky in the EcoTech forum


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Old 09/22/2013, 04:29 PM   #448
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anyone try this on the mp60? Mine whizzes ramping up and down. I havent taken it apart yet.


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Old 09/29/2013, 03:38 PM   #449
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After becoming a near expert in opening up the dry side after not one, not two, but three failed bearing replacements on an MP10, the fourth time was the charm.

The first two times, I just thought I got bad bearings. They didn't help with the noise at all. I sold that MP10 for dirt cheap and moved on.

A few weeks ago, I bought another one that was supposed to be quiet, but was loud as all hell. I figured I'd give bearing replacement one more shot and ordered the same bearings as the two times before (from Boca Bearings, SS ABEC 5 shielded), and guess what... still loud as hell.

That's when I really went into read mode. Read through this thread and a few others around the net, and decided to purchase chrome steel ABEC1 rubber sealed bearings from VXB. They came Thursday, and today was the first chance I could get to install them. Popped the dry side open (literally took me less than a minute, I've got it down pat lol), pulled the old bearings off and installed the new ones. WHOA. Silence.


Here are videos I made documenting the noise they make.

MP10 without new bearings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FA5YH5cb4s

MP10 with SS shielded bearings from Boca: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mu5N4tJZks

MP10 with CS rubber sealed bearings from VXB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljcu_uboQ1M


The last video picked up the sound a little too well (it was filmed on a different phone), unless I press my ear up to the dry side, I cannot hear it.

Now that I know that chrome steel sealed are what is needed, I'll be ordering two sets to go ahead and replace the ones in my two MP40wES.


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Old 10/12/2013, 01:11 PM   #450
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Just an observation I made. I plan on changing the bearings in my mp40. In the meantime, I took it apart to see what it looked like. After putting it back together, it vibrated really bad. I was looking at the magnet as it was spinning and it had a lot of wobble. I loosened up the screw and reseated the magnet and wobble and vibration was gone. I just wanted to let everyone know when putting things back together to keep this in mind. If I actually changed out my bearings, I would have immediately blamed it on that.


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