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Old 04/21/2017, 01:44 AM   #1
chaos1907
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Pro Bio S and cyanobacteria

Hi everyone,

I have 800 lt SPS+LPS tank, fully loaded. It almost 2 years old. I'm using AF products since Aug 2016. Pro Bio S+ -NP Pro(everyday), Energy+Vitality(every other day), Amino+Build(every other day)etc. I used Probiotic Salt in the beginning when I met AF but I decided to change to Sea Salt because of Ca, Mg and KH values. This is another topic

Previous Figures
NO3 1 (NYOS)
PO4 0 (Hanna)
Ca 430 (salifert)
MG 1400 (salifert)
KH 8.2 (salifert)
pH 8.3 (Hanna)
sal 1.025 (Hanna)
Zeomix installed
Supermarine 250 installed


I was dosing them according to instructions. But I've noticed cyano since 4 months and I've decrease the dosages to half of them to check the results instead Pro Bio S+ -NP Pro. Cyano was growing up, even then cut the dosing for rest of them. Then, I stopped the dosing for Pro Bio S and NP Pro. So, cyano was gone but PO4 (0.10) and NO3(10)increased dramatically. When I add these two products then values are going down but cyano coming up.

I couldn't found the balance dosage for these and I need help.

Thanks for your posts in advance


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Old 04/21/2017, 02:03 AM   #2
chaos1907
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Old 04/21/2017, 06:16 PM   #3
hegeh
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Im having the same issue. Followed the exact instruction but have cyano outbreak. Started AF product 2mths ago.

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Old 04/23/2017, 12:25 AM   #4
ivanotas
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Any further inputs? no the battle with cyano with AF products?


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Old 04/25/2017, 01:40 AM   #5
chaos1907
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not yet? maybe AF will produce a product against cyano, for that reason they let the people feed to cyano first


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Old 04/25/2017, 07:25 AM   #6
plyle02
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Corals look healthy and colorful, all your levels seem great in terms of mineral values. Cyano is usually linked to acidity, for this, you can increase the dosing of AF Build to daily, and you can even exceed the dosing amount, we can then evaluate and see it's impacts on cyano. Next, please review the skimmate production, please ensure the skimmer is set to "dry", this will keep you from skimming off bacteria additions. You could play around with Pro Bio S dosing and NP Pro dosing amounts. With cyano I usually stay the course with bacteria, and back off carbon source. The nitrates and phosphate relationship is key, and usually cyano rears it's ugly face when this balance is compromised. Do you use "stack method" with Zeomix-Carbon-Phosphate Minus? Do you have any additional media to support the bacteria? Do you have carbon in the system? Also, I would pair Energy and Build together, and dose opposite days with Vitality and Amino Mix. You could also back off of these if you have enough organic foods making there way into the tank, in some cases aminos are not necessary, depending on food source. Most foods have vitamins and aminos, make sure polyps are expanded during non lit hours, and extending feeder polyps. This will ensure the corals are accepting foods, therefore the aminos are being taken in. Otherwise, this could also fuel algae. Long reply, sorry, lol...


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Perry

"Anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ~Buddha~

Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon AIO Cube, Aquamaxx WS-1 Skimmer, LED/ Hybrid 4x24 watt t5
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Old 04/25/2017, 08:05 AM   #7
ivanotas
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Back off carbon.. Can i stop dosing np pro? And just dose pro bio s?

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Old 04/25/2017, 10:06 AM   #8
plyle02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanotas View Post
Back off carbon.. Can i stop dosing np pro? And just dose pro bio s?

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Carbon should be used with systems that utilize a carbon source and bacteria source. I would recommend to use active, but passive should suffice minimally. Yes, you can decrease your NP Pro and use Pro Bio S, but at some point, to keep both N&P in check, or in balance, both should be used daily. Observation is the key


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Perry

"Anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ~Buddha~

Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon AIO Cube, Aquamaxx WS-1 Skimmer, LED/ Hybrid 4x24 watt t5
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Old 04/25/2017, 11:09 AM   #9
hegeh
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Just to share my experience.

I started dose np pro and probio s 2mths ago and few weeks gap i install a calcium reactor. And im starting to have cyano outbreak

I seek AF advise in their facebook group and this one of their team advise

Cyanobacteria isn't utilising silicates

It mostly comes when we have no Nitrate reading but detectable phosphate

In this case it's better to use more phosphate binder

It is also helpful to raise ORP some people are getting good results adding H2O2 Hydrogen Peroxide, the higher oxygen content in the water makes it harder for Cyano to utilise the nitrogen in the water

The process of breaking down waste in the aquarium which we are familiar with Ammonia > Nitrite > Nitrate > Nitrogen
Cyano can fix Nitrogen from the water, that's why we see it in the rocks and sand its capturing phosphate and nitrogen from the substrate

Higher flow helps, turkey basting the rocks helps using a gravel cleaner at water change time is a big help,

In other words Detritus is feeding the cyano bacteria

Lights overdue for changing can also contribute T5 tubes and Halide lamp shift to longer wavelengths as they age cyano photosynthesis takes place 525 to 620 nm

If you have LEDs you may be able to remove this part of the spectrum by changing a channel

You can use erythromycin as Cyano is a gram negative bacteria our filter bacteria are gram positive so it won't kill filter bacteria, though personally I don't like using cures like this, it is treating the result and not the route cause

There are some good threads and YouTube videos on this topic.

https://youtu.be/O5QRZREjud0

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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Old 04/25/2017, 11:11 AM   #10
hegeh
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I did try to dose H202 and dose np and probios at my sump instead of dt. It reduced my cyano greatly.

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Old 04/25/2017, 04:04 PM   #11
chaos1907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plyle02 View Post
Corals look healthy and colorful, all your levels seem great in terms of mineral values. Cyano is usually linked to acidity, for this, you can increase the dosing of AF Build to daily, and you can even exceed the dosing amount, we can then evaluate and see it's impacts on cyano. Next, please review the skimmate production, please ensure the skimmer is set to "dry", this will keep you from skimming off bacteria additions. You could play around with Pro Bio S dosing and NP Pro dosing amounts. With cyano I usually stay the course with bacteria, and back off carbon source. The nitrates and phosphate relationship is key, and usually cyano rears it's ugly face when this balance is compromised. Do you use "stack method" with Zeomix-Carbon-Phosphate Minus? Do you have any additional media to support the bacteria? Do you have carbon in the system? Also, I would pair Energy and Build together, and dose opposite days with Vitality and Amino Mix. You could also back off of these if you have enough organic foods making there way into the tank, in some cases aminos are not necessary, depending on food source. Most foods have vitamins and aminos, make sure polyps are expanded during non lit hours, and extending feeder polyps. This will ensure the corals are accepting foods, therefore the aminos are being taken in. Otherwise, this could also fuel algae. Long reply, sorry, lol...
First, thank you very much for the explanation.

Actually, I use "stack method" Zeomix-carbon-Phos Minus. I forgot to mention. Plus, I have Ca reactor (Jet Stream1) I use Build+Amino and Energy+Vitality the opposite day.

I have many large tangs in my tank, for that reason I don't feed my corals frequently. My motto is "If you feed the fish, fish feeds the coral". Even so, I prepare a kind of soup for my corals time the time (fish egg+power food+zoothon+phython+red plankton+etc). (I trust my skimmer ). This should be main reason of cyano !!?

Anyway, I'll follow your advise and will share the results afterwards


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Old 04/25/2017, 04:20 PM   #12
chaos1907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hegeh View Post
Just to share my experience.

I started dose np pro and probio s 2mths ago and few weeks gap i install a calcium reactor. And im starting to have cyano outbreak

I seek AF advise in their facebook group and this one of their team advise

Cyanobacteria isn't utilising silicates

It mostly comes when we have no Nitrate reading but detectable phosphate

In this case it's better to use more phosphate binder

It is also helpful to raise ORP some people are getting good results adding H2O2 Hydrogen Peroxide, the higher oxygen content in the water makes it harder for Cyano to utilise the nitrogen in the water

The process of breaking down waste in the aquarium which we are familiar with Ammonia > Nitrite > Nitrate > Nitrogen
Cyano can fix Nitrogen from the water, that's why we see it in the rocks and sand its capturing phosphate and nitrogen from the substrate

Higher flow helps, turkey basting the rocks helps using a gravel cleaner at water change time is a big help,

In other words Detritus is feeding the cyano bacteria

Lights overdue for changing can also contribute T5 tubes and Halide lamp shift to longer wavelengths as they age cyano photosynthesis takes place 525 to 620 nm

If you have LEDs you may be able to remove this part of the spectrum by changing a channel

You can use erythromycin as Cyano is a gram negative bacteria our filter bacteria are gram positive so it won't kill filter bacteria, though personally I don't like using cures like this, it is treating the result and not the route cause

There are some good threads and YouTube videos on this topic.

https://youtu.be/O5QRZREjud0

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
When you said " If you have LEDs you may be able to remove this part of the spectrum by changing a channel " then I remember my cyano problem began on almost same days with my new Radion gen4s. Honestly, I made too many changes until fnd the best result but...!?

I used Chemiclean couple years before and I took very good results and satisfied but I cannot dare to use it for this tank. I agree with you, Erythromycin cure should be the same, but risky one, as I know. Antibiotics !!!


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Old 04/25/2017, 09:20 PM   #13
malady
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I am also having a cyano problem using pro bio F powder.

Hopefully I can ride it out and see If it goes away with some manual removal.


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Old 04/25/2017, 10:16 PM   #14
ivanotas
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How much h2o2 did u dose? 3% concentration?

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Old 04/26/2017, 01:04 AM   #15
hegeh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanotas View Post
How much h2o2 did u dose? 3% concentration?

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About 4ml for 350Liter. Yes 3%

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Old 04/26/2017, 06:45 AM   #16
plyle02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malady View Post
I am also having a cyano problem using pro bio F powder.

Hopefully I can ride it out and see If it goes away with some manual removal.
Pro Bio F is pretty strong, I would personally use at 1/2 strength, every other day. Also, you may need to use a phos remover in conjunction, as from my experience it reduces N more so than P.


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Perry

"Anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" ~Buddha~

Current Tank Info: 50 Gallon AIO Cube, Aquamaxx WS-1 Skimmer, LED/ Hybrid 4x24 watt t5
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Old 04/26/2017, 02:59 PM   #17
malady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plyle02 View Post
Pro Bio F is pretty strong, I would personally use at 1/2 strength, every other day. Also, you may need to use a phos remover in conjunction, as from my experience it reduces N more so than P.
appreciate it.

I have been using 3/4 spoon every day but I will back off.

Already using BRS rox and phosphate minus.

I will up the flow and hope it goes away.


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