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Old 10/29/2016, 03:27 AM   #51
2dawghouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Kuhn View Post
This of course is definately NOT what it should be like.
@AF guys potentially reading this: So here you have some job to do. Improving the situation would be a good ideas. Checking first how this could happen, and letting us here know how it could. how will you avoid this in future? This would be my measures if i'd be responsible for the company.
good news here is :Sometimes issues like this showed up that they later on even improved trust levels of customers (nobody is perfect, but we should learn from our errors)
This is exactly my thoughts. I never said I wouldon't use AF products again. I've been very pleased with their products up till this batch of salt. And I understand stuff happens and products go sideways. But to hear AF acknowledge this shows competency and a willing to fix it so that we as consumers can be assured this won't be an ongoing issue.


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Old 10/29/2016, 03:29 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by GoVols View Post
If you read my first post

Cross checked against 3 different test kits. (Api / Red sea and Elos.

Also drove (The next day) mixed sample 30 miles to Nashville to my (LFS) and they matched my SG and the "Big 3".

I mix 3 - 5 gallon jugs once a week (At the Same Time) for my weekly water changes. Jug 1 finished my current bucket of salt. Opened new bucket and mixed into jugs 2 and 3 which tested to the low Cal and Alk #'s. All 3 jugs came in at 1.025 SG. Jug 1 was still holding NSW parameters.

I would never call Deep Water Aq or posted on here or Dr Foster & Smith without ruling out all possible option but the mix first. Even Deep Water told me sea mix must have be put in reef salt buckets. Well I could see it being OK the first time but after using 3 more buckets and hitting the same low #'s again is not a fluke.

I order six order's

#1 Dead on specs.
#2 Low #'s
#'s 3-5 Dead on Specs
#6 Low #'s

I don't claim be be a reef genius but after 30 years I've never had anybodies salt come in way off who provides QC sheets Like "Salinity". Also I've been around long enough to check anybodies parameter's when opening a new box or bucket. It maybe too late after you see things changing in your main display "for the worst".

It's also not good enough to say send sample Europe. If your going to sale in the states then support us here. When I called Deep Water and Salty Supply the first time they didn't want a sample or the bucket to test. They said all we can do is email Europe. If they did email Europe I wasn't asked to be copied on it. I also didn't ask for a replacement either. As a customer I shouldn't have to if Deep Water is not willing to test it. I guess they don't have the equipment or knowledge either...

Like I said in my post if I wanted to dose up while mixing I'd stayed with regular "Instant Ocean".

Still can't get a answer for any of my questions...

I'm going to ask the last one,--- one more time (Below)

Will Component 1+ 2+ 3+ Stabilize in equal daily dosing on all 3 parts with all major salt mix brands?

Getting this question answered is asking a politician something here in the USA!
Never Mind, I see you did respond to that question. My Bad

Deep Water told me it had to AF or Tropic Marin salt Mixes.

Deep Water needs to be educated too. I would have stayed with Comp. 1-3+ if they haven't told this miss guided info.


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Old 10/29/2016, 04:05 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Potatohead View Post
It's well known that hobby test kits are not ultra accurate. The testing AF does on batches IS ultra accurate. That's their point.
When your params. Mix to 350 Cal and 6 Alk.

That's not even getting into the "Ultra Accurate".

That's getting into the dosing while mixing point.

I'm wasn't buying AF to dose and never had to with "Salinity". Always mixed with reason to NSW and their QC encoded on each bucket,

That's my point.


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Old 10/29/2016, 05:39 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by GoVols View Post
Still can't get a answer for any of my questions...

I'm going to ask the last one,--- one more time (Below)

Will Component 1+ 2+ 3+ Stabilize in equal daily dosing on all 3 parts with all major salt mix brands?

Getting this question answered is asking a politician something here in the USA!
Sorry in case i make you upset, this is not my intention

There is no senseful answer to your question!
- it doesn't have to do anything the brands or types of salt !
- 1+2+3+ is an Ca/Alk adaptation system with Mg and traces, that's it - full stop-
- None of this systems can "stabilize in equal dosing" what millions of different aquariums world-wide "consume". that is IMPOSSIBLE
- I doubt also that there will be a system you are asking for in future. The only chance to do that is "automatically and steadily measuring AND adapting" with .... whatever you call it

this answer is not political, but it is technical wise correct

by the way
if there is the impression that i'm working for any distributor, i can answer with a clear NO.

What i'm writing here just as a fan of this hobby. Fully independent, but with "some existing experience and i think also KnowHow"

i just tried to help to puzzle out things here.
Maybe i shouldn't


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Old 10/29/2016, 05:44 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by 2dawghouse View Post
And I understand stuff happens and products go sideways. But to hear AF acknowledge this shows competency and a willing to fix it so that we as consumers can be assured this won't be an ongoing issue.
So far I am still using AF salt and I hope AF will start to pay attention to these issues.


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Old 10/31/2016, 04:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by sk8elenex92 View Post
@AquaForest

How true is this " Component 1+ 2+ 3+ will only work with AF or Tropic Marin salts to stabilize ions" Need to be NaCl free salt???

Is this the cause of SPS STNing just after couple days of dosing COMP123???
Component 1+2+3+ is based on Balling Method - but not the same.
It contains:
1+ Ca, Mg, Sr, Ba, Co, Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn, Ni, Cr
2+ NaHCO3, F, I
3+ Mineral salts, K, Bo.


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Old 12/05/2016, 08:22 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by 2dawghouse View Post
This is exactly my thoughts. I never said I wouldon't use AF products again. I've been very pleased with their products up till this batch of salt. And I understand stuff happens and products go sideways. But to hear AF acknowledge this shows competency and a willing to fix it so that we as consumers can be assured this won't be an ongoing issue.
I never saw AF open up or this forum about any QC issues. Not ever new buckets of block hard salt or the trash in Rakies salt. Must less mixed parameters not matching QC sheets like low alk and 1500 mag.

Martin Kuhn did but he's not part of Aquaforest. At lease he came on here and tried to help us.

The only thing I've seen AF own up to was "Were's the Suffer: thread.
People sent in samples to Triton Labs and it showed low suffer.

Finally AF responded that they are trying to fix their QC for suffer.

With no official response from AF it leaves me to believe they think we don't know how to mix salt, not going to fix their QC issues or going to try to fix their QC and not going to say anything.

If AF said they've looked into and resolved these issues beginning with certain new batch #'s I'd switch back to their Reef Salt. (ASAP)


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Old 12/05/2016, 09:05 PM   #58
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They never sent me the replacement bucket of Salt they promised either. Their non salt products seem fine. Even their salt initially gave me some good PE in my SPS, which leads me to believe the initial WC wasn't enough to swing my dKH, but WAS bringing in other good things.

AquaForest has proven to not care about customer support or Quality Control.

In their other products I've used, I've had stellar results -- But even the packaging leaves something to be desired. My bottle of -NP Pro was a 10ml bottle, as someone who had only a 29g tank, a single drop was a dose. This 10ml bottle came half empty, and tested out to a little over 7ml. Additionally, my Pro bio S is also 10ml, but seems to have about 9-10ml after *heavy* use.

So "10ml" apparently means "7-15ml, depending on which way the wind is blowing that day".

What blows me away here is how nice some of their products genuinely are, yet how they can't even manage to get 10ml of the product into a 10ml bottle... It's both a complete shame, and shows extremely poor QUALITY control.



Last edited by Rakie; 12/05/2016 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 12/05/2016, 10:06 PM   #59
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Is it possible that the salt is still in the mail or something? I am blown away at the level of CS they are showing. I was considering some of their products.....
Corey


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Old 12/05/2016, 11:05 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Rakie View Post
They never sent me the replacement bucket of Salt they promised either. Their non salt products seem fine. Even their salt initially gave me some good PE in my SPS, which leads me to believe the initial WC wasn't enough to swing my dKH, but WAS bringing in other good things.

AquaForest has proven to not care about customer support or Quality Control.

In their other products I've used, I've had stellar results -- But even the packaging leaves something to be desired. My bottle of -NP Pro was a 10ml bottle, as someone who had only a 29g tank, a single drop was a dose. This 10ml bottle came half empty, and tested out to a little over 7ml. Additionally, my Pro bio S is also 10ml, but seems to have about 9-10ml after *heavy* use.

So "10ml" apparently means "7-15ml, depending on which way the wind is blowing that day".

What blows me away here is how nice some of their products genuinely are, yet how they can't even manage to get 10ml of the product into a 10ml bottle... It's both a complete shame, and shows extremely poor QUALITY control.
Rakie, Thanks for stepping back up to the plate for us, again!

You started this thread and look at all the reports that came in from concerned reefers. Sold blocks of salt and way off parameters to AF QC sheet / Blue and brown salt mix.

Not to mention how many don't check their parameters, wont post or no nothing about Reef Central.

I started their reef salt as soon as it hit the USA. I would love to say all has been well too. I reported and posted my findings for the truth. Reefers and AF can take it or leave it.

I can't believe you still haven't got a replacement bucket and you even had Jabba the Hut floating in there.

I do agree some of their products are great. Component 1+ 2+ 3+ was the most stable dosing product I ever used once lock in.

But the sad fact is (To This Day) AF has TRULY never responded to your thread or any of us pertaining to any of these issues.

They may be caring people as one poster said, but their utter silence to this thread tells me all I need to know.

Regards, GoVols


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Old 12/05/2016, 11:11 PM   #61
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Is it possible that the salt is still in the mail or something? I am blown away at the level of CS they are showing. I was considering some of their products.....
Corey
Well they contacted me in PM about it over a month ago.. I suppose it may still be in the mail, but 1 1/2 months is quite awhile. Even worse, their products that have shown themselves to be of quality for me aren't even reliably filled.

I'm not sure what the heck is going on with this company. It seems like it's run by children.

Did you notice how they refused to even outright acknowledge the foreign objects in my container? They didn't ask about them, comment about them, or respond to questions about them.. I had no problems from this company until i tried to contact them.


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Old 12/05/2016, 11:14 PM   #62
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FYI,

My goal was to get Tropic Marin Pro Reef quality for AF pricing, about a little over a year ago. It just didn't work out for me.

I think you said TMPR had QC issues. From my memory that was around 2012 (low alk).

This happened after TM charged the TMPR formula and was fixed. They also don't put QC sheets in their buckets.


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Old 12/05/2016, 11:25 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by biecacka View Post
Is it possible that the salt is still in the mail or something? I am blown away at the level of CS they are showing. I was considering some of their products.....
Corey
Their only level of customers service on this thread has been to send AF a sample to Poland.

So their #'s are good for the batch that was made but your bucket might not mix up to what the entire batch measured?

Maybe they need to roll their BATCH around before putting in buckets? (lol)


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Old 12/05/2016, 11:40 PM   #64
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FYI,

My goal was to get Tropic Marin Pro Reef quality for AF pricing, about a little over a year ago. It just didn't work out for me.

I think you said TMPR had QC issues. From my memory that was around 2012 (low alk).

This happened after TM charged the TMPR formula and was fixed. They also don't put QC sheets in their buckets.
I liked my TM, but a lot of other people said they had iffy QC, so I didn't go for it.

Truthfully now I'm using Fritz -- It's pretty amazing. Since walking away from Red Sea and trying TM Probio, AF Reef, IO, and finally Fritz -- My Journey is done for awhile. Fritz hasn't let me down one bit, and all those I know whove tried it have nothing but stellar results. My club had a group buy recently, my only complaint is I bought 1 box instead of 5 or 6.


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Old 12/06/2016, 12:07 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Rakie View Post
I liked my TM, but a lot of other people said they had iffy QC, so I didn't go for it.

Truthfully now I'm using Fritz -- It's pretty amazing. Since walking away from Red Sea and trying TM Probio, AF Reef, IO, and finally Fritz -- My Journey is done for awhile. Fritz hasn't let me down one bit, and all those I know whove tried it have nothing but stellar results. My club had a group buy recently, my only complaint is I bought 1 box instead of 5 or 6.
I read up on Randy Holmes-Farley and he only uses IO purple but has stated Fritz is very good. I've seen their web site.

Since AF went to Brightwell / Finishing up the last of my Reef Crystals and going to settle back into Tropic Marin Pro Reef again for the long haul.


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Old 12/06/2016, 06:14 AM   #66
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@Rakie,
Hi it is Perry, I think we may have interacted in the past? Anyway, I support AF, but am only here to provide that support to help guide AF users, I apologize for the inconvenience and lack of communication. Hopefully you will get a response soon. I have sent a message concerning this thread to the AF directly. If I can assist any further please reach out to me


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Old 12/06/2016, 02:20 PM   #67
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@Rakie,
Hi it is Perry, I think we may have interacted in the past? Anyway, I support AF, but am only here to provide that support to help guide AF users, I apologize for the inconvenience and lack of communication. Hopefully you will get a response soon. I have sent a message concerning this thread to the AF directly. If I can assist any further please reach out to me
Yes we have, Thank you very much Perry! You've actually given me some great advice about AF products -- And as I stated, their products haven't let me down one bit until this salt came in.

Even with a dKH of 5.8, I did a water change (without checking params) and my corals all liked it at first. Which tells me there's other goodies in the mix which my corals did appreciate -- But after testing params, I knew my Alk would start dropping if I kept up WC's with this particular product.


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Old 12/06/2016, 04:00 PM   #68
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Hi Perry,
I'm thankful that your here to help us "USE" AF products on Reef Central!

As far as "Customer Service" goes on these QC issues, AF (Poland) should have came on here and addressed any of these post.

If you have a bad bucket: Send Sample to Poland. That's just cra cra...
This is just PITA for customers, it's not USA Customer Service!

Rakies new bucket: Seems like all AF (Poland) needed to do is call/email Deep Water Aquatics with his info and he'd have a new bucket in like 3 days.

Now it's like email us and we not going to follow threw.

Maybe AF (Poland), Truly doesn't understand what Customer Service means in the USA?


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Old 12/09/2016, 03:23 PM   #69
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Hello,
To respond to some of the issues that have been discussed here on this thread, Aquaforest would like to apologize for any concerns regarding our salt.

Rakie, Deepwater will be sending you a bucket of Reef Salt for your troubles, hopefully your refund for the original salt has reached you. The issue was found to be in fact sandpaper that is used to clean the machine that mixes the salt. We apologize that this object was found in your salt container, we have discussed this with Quality Control to ensure this does not happen again. Thank you very much for you patience regarding this matter.

Hardened salt does happen from time to time, the salt comes from Poland to the United States, from there it is air freighted to various parts of the US. Sometimes with high altitude and/or extreme temperature changes, this can happen. Should this happen, please email us, and Deepwater will quickly replace.

With Quality Control the salts are tested using our ICP machine, but it is possible for them to vary from batch to batch. Please realize we are working with our Quality team to make sure that these statistics found in each of our buckets or boxes is better represented by the stat sheet.

Thank you to all US customers, we are trying to add more support people to our team and hope to improve the customer experience. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,
Team Aquaforest


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Old 12/09/2016, 06:31 PM   #70
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Hello,
To respond to some of the issues that have been discussed here on this thread, Aquaforest would like to apologize for any concerns regarding our salt.

Rakie, Deepwater will be sending you a bucket of Reef Salt for your troubles, hopefully your refund for the original salt has reached you. The issue was found to be in fact sandpaper that is used to clean the machine that mixes the salt. We apologize that this object was found in your salt container, we have discussed this with Quality Control to ensure this does not happen again. Thank you very much for you patience regarding this matter.

Hardened salt does happen from time to time, the salt comes from Poland to the United States, from there it is air freighted to various parts of the US. Sometimes with high altitude and/or extreme temperature changes, this can happen. Should this happen, please email us, and Deepwater will quickly replace.

With Quality Control the salts are tested using our ICP machine, but it is possible for them to vary from batch to batch. Please realize we are working with our Quality team to make sure that these statistics found in each of our buckets or boxes is better represented by the stat sheet.

Thank you to all US customers, we are trying to add more support people to our team and hope to improve the customer experience. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,
Team Aquaforest
Hello AF,

This is a "Stand up" response and better QC action's being taken to these issues within AF.

If I come to the conclusion (over time) that the reef salt has consist parameters from bucket to bucket or box to box to the QC sheets then I be going back to your "Reef Salt".

It takes a big person/corporation to say I have some issues but how do I go from here it and improve.

Regards, GoVols


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Old 12/09/2016, 10:49 PM   #71
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This thread basically faded away until someone asked a question, a bit later it sparked back to life.

So first and Foremost, I contacted the company I purchased it from right away for a refund. I originally wasn't planning to use this salt again -- When I was first contacted by AF, I truly believed either in direct message or in this thread I had mentioned getting the refund right away. *Then* I was offered a new bucket of salt after the fact. I have deleted my messages with AF so I genuinely can't make sure if I had or had not specified this. Due to the order of these events I was under the impression the new bucket of salt was offered in addition to the refund, as mine had the previously disclosed items within it.

I was contacted yesterday by AF as this thread has come back to life and Perry had been kind enough to bring it to their attention. They asked if I had received a refund, and that is when I realized there was a communication error..

AF graciously offered to send me a new bucket after I had explained my misinterpretation, and they have disclosed what the paper was, and that the paper had indeed been used on metals. The replacement bucket was unnecessary, but I will absolutely accept and fully test it, posting the results here (or possibly in a new thread). Additionally, I will make sure to sift the product as well.

Aqua Forest stepping in to say definitively that the foreign objects in my salt were indeed sandpaper scraps that were used on metals makes me quite happy. It makes me happy not only because I'm apparently a garbage detective, but because we finally got the answer to "what the heck IS that thing?". In my message to them, I had said our biggest concern was that the paper hadn't been explained or even acknowledged. They absolutely heard me, and responded for all of us.


So again, thank you VERY much for getting back in touch with us Aqua Forest, and thank you for telling us what the paper was. I will absolutely test your new salt when it's received, and will gladly post the results. Stay tuned


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Old 04/01/2017, 05:35 PM   #72
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Time to bump this thread, again!

It saddens me that AF says their fixing the QC issues on 12/9 and totally ignored this thread until that day.

Today, I'm poking around the BRS website and hit the AF reef salt.

Look at the reviews on the AF salt. The QC sheet is still garbage and dirty water????

Nothing has changed!!!!!!!!!!!


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Old 04/01/2017, 07:37 PM   #73
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Time to bump this thread, again!

It saddens me that AF says their fixing the QC issues on 12/9 and totally ignored this thread until that day.

Today, I'm poking around the BRS website and hit the AF reef salt.

Look at the reviews on the AF salt. The QC sheet is still garbage and dirty water????

Nothing has changed!!!!!!!!!!!


Are you still using AF Reef salt?




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Old 04/03/2017, 02:22 PM   #74
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With Quality Control the salts are tested using our ICP machine, but it is possible for them to vary from batch to batch. Please realize we are working with our Quality team to make sure that these statistics found in each of our buckets or boxes is better represented by the stat sheet.
Hello AF Poland,
You said you were fixing the issue in the above statement and I stated that if you resolved this problem that I would come back.

I'm still seeing #'s not matching to your QC sheets on forums and Bulk Reef Supply reviews on your "Reef Salt".

This has nothing to do with the US support on these forums. They are wonderful and this is not in their control.

Can you help me understand why the problem still exist?

Regards, GoVols


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Last edited by GoVols; 04/03/2017 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 04/08/2017, 12:31 AM   #75
Debora
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Poland
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoVols View Post
Hello AF Poland,
You said you were fixing the issue in the above statement and I stated that if you resolved this problem that I would come back.

I'm still seeing #'s not matching to your QC sheets on forums and Bulk Reef Supply reviews on your "Reef Salt".

This has nothing to do with the US support on these forums. They are wonderful and this is not in their control.

Can you help me understand why the problem still exist?

Regards, GoVols
Hello GoVols,
Are you using Aquaforest Salt? Parameters of your salt mix do not match to quality certificate? Can you please contact me via PM and send me photo of batch number? I am sure that I can help you.


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