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Old 12/11/2019, 12:12 PM   #26
ohashimz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtint View Post
I have always cured my live rock. For me itís one of the oldest practices around. Gets rid of unwanted hitchhikers. Sponges. Nems. The bacteria living within the rock is what you want. Not the crap attached to the rock. Itís been years since I purchased live rock from a fish store but we would have a option of cured or uncured rock. The uncured we would put in trash cans for a couple weeks with airstone and skimmers to kill the bad stuff off. This would keep from ammonia and nitrite spikes.
I personally believe itís the dry rock that is mined from old dry reefs that the phosphate leaches from. This is just a thought. Been in hobby since the 80ís. I actually have Hawaiian rock in my tank. I have had it since then (before the reefs were closed off) and have never had a issue with that or any purchased live rock. Itís only when I have mixed mined reef rock or manufactured rock that I have developed a algae problem.


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Then why pay the extra money? Why do not you just get a dead live rocks or dry rocks?
What is the value of buying live rocks if you are killing whatever on it?

Btw I alwayes do dry rocks over the last 13 years for more than 5 systems I always do 80% dry and 20% live from a known system... so I do not want you to think am advocating using live rocks.

This is one of my current 2 systems (3 years old)

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Old 12/11/2019, 12:15 PM   #27
ohashimz
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Originally Posted by Zalick View Post
What I meant with my sump rock example was this: The same rock is in my sump. If the rock is leaching phosphates, this rock would be leaching phosphates. Since the sump rock does not have algae growing on it, the phosphates leached by this rock would enter the water column v. being consumed by the adjacent algae. If these phosphates are released by the sump rock, in to the water column, I would be able to detect them with my Hanna ULR tester.









My PO4 and NO3 are both undetectable, but clearly not 0. So this algae must be able to live on extremely low levels of this.



I have no silicone tubing. And no other obvious sources of silica aside from the sand.



No leaking magnets. But I was running GFO which likely added some iron to the water column.



The algae started with my LED lights..... (I'm not blaming the lights yet....)
As I said before, if the issue coming from your rocks, gfo will not help. If the rocks are saturated with po4 it will leach very slowly and algae will feed off it.

another helpful data if you can provide:

Do you have algae growing other than on the rocks?

Do you have algae anywhere where there is no light?

Any special characteristics of the algae(color, behavior, cyclic...ect)

Any algae in water column?


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Old 12/11/2019, 12:18 PM   #28
ohashimz
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One last request:
Can you take pics of the system and the equipment please.
Thanks

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Last edited by ohashimz; 12/11/2019 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 12/11/2019, 12:26 PM   #29
mrtint
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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
Then why pay the extra money? Why do not you just get a dead live rocks or dry rocks?
What is the value of buying live rocks if you are killing whatever on it?

Btw I alwayes do dry rocks over the last 13 years for more than 5 systems I always do 80% dry and 20% live from a known system... so I do not want you to think am advocating using live rocks.

This is one of my current 2 systems (3 years old)

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Beautiful tank. Congrats. We all know the work it takes to have great success! Good job.

Curing rock doesnít kill the bacteria within the rock. Most rock we purchase is cured at local fish stores unless you purchase straight from supplier. Itís really not important and donít want to get side tracked just want to be clear that cured doesnít mean dead.

I suspect the lighting in this case but am only basing it on the fact that everything else has been addressed


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Old 12/11/2019, 12:32 PM   #30
Zalick
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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
As I said before, if the issue coming from your rocks, gfo will not help. If the rocks are saturated with po4 it will leach very slowly and algae will feed off it.

another helpful data if you can provide:

Do you have algae growing other than on the rocks?
Algae only growing on the rocks, and slowly up coral skeletons of my LPS. The LPS grows faster than the algae grows up it.(LPS came from the old tank and didn't have algae previously)
Normal film algae on the sides of tank.
No algae on the sand. (There is some brown spots in the picture above that just appeared. Sand is pretty much clear)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
Do you have algae anywhere where there is no light?
No algae anywhere with no light.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
Any special characteristics of the algae(color, behavior, cyclic...ect)
Its very fragile and scrubs off easily. Does not feel stiff at all and crumbles when you touch it. It grows in high and low flow areas. If I scrub a rock bare, the algae does not come back quickly, but will come back. If I stop all water changes and scrubbing, the algae seems to reach a maximum length of about 1" and stays like that.

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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
Any algae in water column?
No. Water column is crystal clear.


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Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 12/11/2019, 12:34 PM   #31
ohashimz
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Originally Posted by mrtint View Post
Beautiful tank. Congrats. We all know the work it takes to have great success! Good job.

Curing rock doesnít kill the bacteria within the rock. Most rock we purchase is cured at local fish stores unless you purchase straight from supplier. Itís really not important and donít want to get side tracked just want to be clear that cured doesnít mean dead.

I suspect the lighting in this case but am only basing it on the fact that everything else has been addressed


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Sorry my earlier write up should have not be generic like that. What I meant to day is the type of the cure.
You are absolutely correct. The problem is how do you define curing. I have seen reefers define bleeching the rocks as curing lol. So I have learned to aleaue assume the worst when I provide advice to reefers ha ha.
Yes, if the curing is just soaking in salt water in dark place waiting for matters to decompose, not all bacterial population will be killed.
But if its bleached, or soaked in fresh water everything alive will be killed and start to decompose.
Remember bacteria require a minimum of specific conditions to keep existing, like light, nutrients, and salt water...
So depend on the "curing" proccess the rock will emerge alive or dead. Filled with nutrients or clean.

My curing is soak in fresh water for 1 month, change water weekly and test po4. Once po4 is none detected, water look and smell good move rocks to dry in sun for 1 week.



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Old 12/11/2019, 12:36 PM   #32
ohashimz
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Btw if your coral grow well that means you have nutrients and your po4 cannot be zero..just fyi..
Debating how accurate testing kits and how to use them is diffrent topic I will avoid in here)

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Old 12/11/2019, 12:38 PM   #33
Zalick
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I suspect the lighting in this case but am only basing it on the fact that everything else has been addressed
This is what I suspect and it pains me, having purchased 6 Kessil a360 and now 4 Mitras lx7. I see many successful tanks with LEDs, and it makes me really want these to work.

It also chafes me that the very first tank I started, using power pc lights sitting on top of the glass and brita tap water, I was able to grow coral at a rapid rate, clam from 1" to 5" and never had algae issues. No internet then. No local reefers to talk to. Just a book from the library.


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Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 12/11/2019, 12:41 PM   #34
Zalick
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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
Btw if your coral grow well that means you have nutrients and your po4 cannot be zero..just fyi..
Debating how accurate testing kits and how to use them is diffrent topic I will avoid in here)

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Totally agree. The Hanna ULR is not sensitive enough to detect ultra low levels. And its accuracy is such that .002 can read as 0.

I clearly have phosphates in the water column. I just don't have "excessive" phosphates. My LPS grows like crazy.

When I was running GFO aggressively, assuming that I had excessive phosphates and the algae was miraculously getting to the phosphate quicker than my test kit, my LPS began to suffer.


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Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 12/11/2019, 12:41 PM   #35
ohashimz
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This is what I suspect and it pains me, having purchased 6 Kessil a360 and now 4 Mitras lx7. I see many successful tanks with LEDs, and it makes me really want these to work.



It also chafes me that the very first tank I started, using power pc lights sitting on top of the glass and brita tap water, I was able to grow coral at a rapid rate, clam from 1" to 5" and never had algae issues. No internet then. No local reefers to talk to. Just a book from the library.
It's not the light my friend...at least not the only reason... I run 3 hydra 52 hd on 80%+ 6 T5s+4 kessile supplemental.
While light help algae to grow, controlling algae should not be done with light...
If conditions are there, any type of light will help algae to grow. All what light is doing is providing energy for the algae to metabolize the nutrients. Ambient light will be enough for it to keep growing...

Lets just keep digging. We can figure it out.


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Last edited by ohashimz; 12/11/2019 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 12/11/2019, 12:42 PM   #36
Zalick
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This is one of my current 2 systems (3 years old)

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Yes, beautiful tank!


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Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 12/11/2019, 12:43 PM   #37
ohashimz
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Yes, beautiful tank!
Btw am not bragging or anything.
I posted a pic just to show you my system. I personally never take advice from someone before I see their system.
Forums can be dangerous place ha ha...

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Old 12/11/2019, 12:46 PM   #38
Zalick
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Btw am not bragging or anything.
I posted a pic just to show you my system. I personally never take advice from someone before I see their system.
Forums can be dangerous place ha ha...

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Totally agree!


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Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 12/11/2019, 01:41 PM   #39
Zalick
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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
Btw am not bragging or anything.
I posted a pic just to show you my system. I personally never take advice from someone before I see their system.
Forums can be dangerous place ha ha...

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I looked back through some pictures and I guess this tank setup is [3]5 years old. I found a pick of the tank November 2016, prior to adding my fish and rock from the 20 long. The tank itself is a glass tank. The seams started to fail so I swapped it for an acrylic early this year. When I removed all the rock for that tank swap, I scrubbed the @#$% out of them in brute cans, dunked in clean saltwater, then put back in tank.




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300g custom acrylic from James 72x36x27, 4 Mitras Lx7, 2 Stream 3s, C2C beananimal low profile overflow. 100g sump, Vectra M1 -> 114w aquauv -> SRO 5000ext w/ VarioS-6S. -> VarioS 8 return.

Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA

Last edited by Zalick; 12/11/2019 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 12/11/2019, 01:42 PM   #40
ohashimz
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I looked back through some pictures and I guess this tank setup is 3 years old. I found a pick of the tank November 2016, prior to adding my fish and rock from the 20 long.

Am intersted in current. Take your time and send us pictures off:
Display tank
Sump area
Equipments..
Maybe you can add all these pics to the first post to complete the picture...

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Old 12/11/2019, 01:58 PM   #41
Zalick
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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
Am intersted in current. Take your time and send us pictures off:
Display tank
Sump area
Equipments..
Maybe you can add all these pics to the first post to complete the picture...

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Will do when I get home. I'll add to first post.


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Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 12/11/2019, 02:10 PM   #42
Zalick
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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
Am intersted in current. Take your time and send us pictures off:
Display tank
Sump area
Equipments..
Maybe you can add all these pics to the first post to complete the picture...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Looking at this pic makes me sad. All my hopes and dreams with the previous 20 years of reef keeping were supposed to culminate in this box of water.... I spent two years planning the darn system!

Found another pic from December 2014, so it is 5 years old as I thought. The older you get, the harder it is to keep track of time....


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300g custom acrylic from James 72x36x27, 4 Mitras Lx7, 2 Stream 3s, C2C beananimal low profile overflow. 100g sump, Vectra M1 -> 114w aquauv -> SRO 5000ext w/ VarioS-6S. -> VarioS 8 return.

Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA

Last edited by Zalick; 12/11/2019 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 12/11/2019, 04:35 PM   #43
Daddyrawg
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I battled GHA for 1.5 years, it's finally a non issue. I think it just takes time. I believe my rocks were leaching phosphates and that stage is finally over. I did purchase an algae turf scrubber months back so that also helps..


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Old 12/11/2019, 04:58 PM   #44
travisstewart
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I tackled my GHA with one dose of vibrant. I really saw good results with this product. No harm done to tank and it has not been back.


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Old 12/11/2019, 10:37 PM   #45
ohashimz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalick View Post
Looking at this pic makes me sad. All my hopes and dreams with the previous 20 years of reef keeping were supposed to culminate in this box of water.... I spent two years planning the darn system!

Found another pic from December 2014, so it is 5 years old as I thought. The older you get, the harder it is to keep track of time....
No do not be sad. Part of the fun in the hobby is the struggle and learning. Every time I go through an issue I end up learning something new. Same with you. Leta just keep digging do not worry. It can be fixed.
Will wait for your pics. Then we will put a plan and work on a fix..
Have you ever done Triton test? It's really worth it. 50$ will give you great informstions. I highly recommend it when there is persistent problem in the system.

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Old 12/11/2019, 10:39 PM   #46
ohashimz
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Originally Posted by travisstewart View Post
I tackled my GHA with one dose of vibrant. I really saw good results with this product. No harm done to tank and it has not been back.


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I personally not too big on thos product. But glad it worked for you.
What this product is, bacterial that boost your biological filtration. When it come to algae the most important thing is to treat the cause not the symptoms. The algae is the symptoms..finding the source that fueling it is the solution...

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Old 12/11/2019, 10:43 PM   #47
ohashimz
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I battled GHA for 1.5 years, it's finally a non issue. I think it just takes time. I believe my rocks were leaching phosphates and that stage is finally over. I did purchase an algae turf scrubber months back so that also helps..
Yup. In situations like this time do the following:
1- System mature, bacterial population strengthen, bacteria handle and proccess po4
2- by time the rock exhaust po4 as long ad the import (feeding and bio load) is less than the export(mechanical+biological filtration).
So eventually your system reach and equilibrium in nutrient vs filtration

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Old 12/12/2019, 12:57 AM   #48
Zalick
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Originally Posted by ohashimz View Post
No do not be sad. Part of the fun in the hobby is the struggle and learning. Every time I go through an issue I end up learning something new. Same with you. Leta just keep digging do not worry. It can be fixed.
Will wait for your pics. Then we will put a plan and work on a fix..
Have you ever done Triton test? It's really worth it. 50$ will give you great informstions. I highly recommend it when there is persistent problem in the system.

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Thanks!

I have the pics, but I am waiting for admin permission to continue editing the first post. i will post the setup pics there when I get the permission.

Here is the best closeup of the algae. Next week i can use my wifes microscope and take a photo at 100x.




__________________
300g custom acrylic from James 72x36x27, 4 Mitras Lx7, 2 Stream 3s, C2C beananimal low profile overflow. 100g sump, Vectra M1 -> 114w aquauv -> SRO 5000ext w/ VarioS-6S. -> VarioS 8 return.

Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 12/17/2019, 07:21 PM   #49
Zalick
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No do not be sad. Part of the fun in the hobby is the struggle and learning. Every time I go through an issue I end up learning something new. Same with you. Leta just keep digging do not worry. It can be fixed.
Will wait for your pics. Then we will put a plan and work on a fix..
Have you ever done Triton test? It's really worth it. 50$ will give you great informstions. I highly recommend it when there is persistent problem in the system.

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I ordered some of the ATI tests (so I can test my RO as well). Should have them by tomorrow.

Here are some pics of the algae under the microscope (as well as detritus)




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Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 12/17/2019, 07:50 PM   #50
ohashimz
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Originally Posted by Zalick View Post
I ordered some of the ATI tests (so I can test my RO as well). Should have them by tomorrow.



Here are some pics of the algae under the microscope (as well as detritus) spin:



Can you take a water sample only and see under yue scope?
Any part of the water will do. If you have dino it will be everywhere so you do not have to take yue sample from the algae filament itself.
Also I highly recommend you invest on a Triton test..it will reveal alot...alot..

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