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Old 12/17/2019, 07:51 PM   #51
ohashimz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalick View Post
I ordered some of the ATI tests (so I can test my RO as well). Should have them by tomorrow.



Here are some pics of the algae under the microscope (as well as detritus) spin:



Are these brown balls looking organisms moving around rapidly?

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Old 12/17/2019, 07:56 PM   #52
Zalick
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The balls were not moving.

Yes, I can get a pic of the water. Hopefully tomorrow.

The ATI tests I ordered are the same as Triton but they also include a vial to test the RO water.


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Old 12/17/2019, 07:58 PM   #53
ohashimz
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Originally Posted by Zalick View Post
The balls were not moving.

Yes, I can get a pic of the water. Hopefully tomorrow.

The ATI tests I ordered are the same as Triton but they also include a vial to test the RO water.


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Oh it's an ICP got it. Yeh that's good.

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Last edited by ohashimz; 12/17/2019 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 12/20/2019, 02:11 PM   #54
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Oh it's an ICP got it. Yeh that's good.

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Looked at water under 100x oil lens. Nothing in the water at all. We even used a centrifuge to condense any material. We did not do any staining.

Also sent in the ICP test today!


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Last edited by Zalick; 12/20/2019 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 12/21/2019, 12:24 PM   #55
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Great thread! It's like a mystery, that the author and readers are all trying to solve. RC at it's best! It's great to see so many folks trying to help.

I just read through the whole thread, and I have a few thoughts to add to the discussion.

In my experience, it's best to focus on the basics, when fighting algae. Food availability, predation, and competition for food are the biggees. Why haven't I included light? Because light is a constant. You can't turn it off. Though a strategic multi-day blackout can be used as a knock-out blow, once you have the algae 'on the ropes'.

Food availability is a key factor. I'm assuming you are not overfeeding your tank, but you may need to take a look at that. Since we can all agree that algae can feed itself, we need look no further for it's food source. It's the algae itself! Where do think is the most concentrated food source for algae? The water column? The rock? It's the algae itself! This saves us the hassle and mystery of figuring out the food source. You are what you eat-especially if you're algae. So, how do we address this? Manual removal! I'm not talking half measures either. I mean serious, relentless, obsessive-compulsive level removal. Write down a manual removal schedule and stick to it. It sounds like you are already having some success with manual removal. That's good!

Next up is predation. I've seen no mention of a clean up crew on this thread. I think they are vastly underused in the hobby, mainly because a lot of folks just don't know enough about them to use them effectively. Tossing a few snails and crabs in doesn't cut it. In fact, don't bother with hermit crabs, unless you plan to isolate them with no food inputs at all. Once they get a taste of fish food, they become pathetic algae consumers. Plus they kill snails, which are vastly superior algae eaters. So what you need are several, different, reproducing snails, like Ceriths, and others. There are several snails available that reproduce in our tanks. Another predator that gets little attention is PODS. These little guys multiply and eat a lot of algae. Get thousands of them. These were actually instrumental in my winning the war with dinoflagellates. Finally, there are several fish that would love to help out. Scopas Tangs, algae blennies, and even mollies are just a few possibilities.

Competition for food is another effective tool. I think the OP mentioned he had an algae scrubber, but hadn't added it yet. Add it now. Whether it's an algae scrubber, a planted refugium, a chaeto reactor, or just planting some macro algae right in the tank, any of these will provide competition for food. Some algae is gonna happen. By picking an algae export method, YOU control how much and where it is.

Sorry I rambled on. I hope some of this is helpful. Good luck! You're getting there!


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Old 12/21/2019, 07:21 PM   #56
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All of the post above


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Old 12/21/2019, 08:09 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
Great thread! It's like a mystery, that the author and readers are all trying to solve. RC at it's best! It's great to see so many folks trying to help.

I just read through the whole thread, and I have a few thoughts to add to the discussion.

In my experience, it's best to focus on the basics, when fighting algae. Food availability, predation, and competition for food are the biggees. Why haven't I included light? Because light is a constant. You can't turn it off. Though a strategic multi-day blackout can be used as a knock-out blow, once you have the algae 'on the ropes'.

Food availability is a key factor. I'm assuming you are not overfeeding your tank, but you may need to take a look at that. Since we can all agree that algae can feed itself, we need look no further for it's food source. It's the algae itself! Where do think is the most concentrated food source for algae? The water column? The rock? It's the algae itself! This saves us the hassle and mystery of figuring out the food source. You are what you eat-especially if you're algae. So, how do we address this? Manual removal! I'm not talking half measures either. I mean serious, relentless, obsessive-compulsive level removal. Write down a manual removal schedule and stick to it. It sounds like you are already having some success with manual removal. That's good!

Next up is predation. I've seen no mention of a clean up crew on this thread. I think they are vastly underused in the hobby, mainly because a lot of folks just don't know enough about them to use them effectively. Tossing a few snails and crabs in doesn't cut it. In fact, don't bother with hermit crabs, unless you plan to isolate them with no food inputs at all. Once they get a taste of fish food, they become pathetic algae consumers. Plus they kill snails, which are vastly superior algae eaters. So what you need are several, different, reproducing snails, like Ceriths, and others. There are several snails available that reproduce in our tanks. Another predator that gets little attention is PODS. These little guys multiply and eat a lot of algae. Get thousands of them. These were actually instrumental in my winning the war with dinoflagellates. Finally, there are several fish that would love to help out. Scopas Tangs, algae blennies, and even mollies are just a few possibilities.

Competition for food is another effective tool. I think the OP mentioned he had an algae scrubber, but hadn't added it yet. Add it now. Whether it's an algae scrubber, a planted refugium, a chaeto reactor, or just planting some macro algae right in the tank, any of these will provide competition for food. Some algae is gonna happen. By picking an algae export method, YOU control how much and where it is.

Sorry I rambled on. I hope some of this is helpful. Good luck! You're getting there!


No rambling here , all very good advice.


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Old 12/23/2019, 01:43 AM   #58
Zalick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
Great thread! It's like a mystery, that the author and readers are all trying to solve. RC at it's best! It's great to see so many folks trying to help.

I just read through the whole thread, and I have a few thoughts to add to the discussion.

In my experience, it's best to focus on the basics, when fighting algae. Food availability, predation, and competition for food are the biggees. Why haven't I included light? Because light is a constant. You can't turn it off. Though a strategic multi-day blackout can be used as a knock-out blow, once you have the algae 'on the ropes'.
Thanks Michael! Very helpful.

I was thinking about dosing fluconazle, but I'm to give it one more go without dosing.

When I get my ICP test back, I'll have a good baseline for the chemistry portion of this equation. I should have mentioned in my first post that I posted in the chemistry forum because when people talk about GHA, or algae in general, they always say "its a nutrient problem" ie, you've got dirty water. I wanted to document my process to talk this in real time, and show my water chemistry at the same time. Hopefully show people that starving your fish to lower your already zero phosphates, might not be the best way to tackle algae!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
Food availability is a key factor. I'm assuming you are not overfeeding your tank, but you may need to take a look at that. Since we can all agree that algae can feed itself, we need look no further for it's food source. It's the algae itself! Where do think is the most concentrated food source for algae? The water column? The rock? It's the algae itself! This saves us the hassle and mystery of figuring out the food source. You are what you eat-especially if you're algae. So, how do we address this? Manual removal! I'm not talking half measures either. I mean serious, relentless, obsessive-compulsive level removal. Write down a manual removal schedule and stick to it. It sounds like you are already having some success with manual removal. That's good!
My current plan of attack is to pursue aggressive manual removal, on a weekly basis, while measuring my water chemistry. I will be taking pics periodically and posting the pics with the chemistry results. Once I've beaten it back use much as possible, hopefully then the ATS will take-over and out compete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
Next up is predation. I've seen no mention of a clean up crew on this thread. I think they are vastly underused in the hobby, mainly because a lot of folks just don't know enough about them to use them effectively. Tossing a few snails and crabs in doesn't cut it. In fact, don't bother with hermit crabs, unless you plan to isolate them with no food inputs at all. Once they get a taste of fish food, they become pathetic algae consumers. Plus they kill snails, which are vastly superior algae eaters. So what you need are several, different, reproducing snails, like Ceriths, and others. There are several snails available that reproduce in our tanks. Another predator that gets little attention is PODS. These little guys multiply and eat a lot of algae. Get thousands of them. These were actually instrumental in my winning the war with dinoflagellates. Finally, there are several fish that would love to help out. Scopas Tangs, algae blennies, and even mollies are just a few possibilities.
My clean-up crew is pretty pathetic at the moment. I've been reluctant to begin my master stocking plan for this tank, due to this stupid algae problem. So My only algea eating fish is my Magnificent Foxface. He does pick at it all day long. I'm a big "no crabs in my tank" guy. I like snails and don't like feeding crabs expensive dinners.... My snail population is weak. I definitely need to add to it. I only have 1 mexican turbo, a couple banded trochus (I've lost about 15 over the last year or so), a few nassarius, a few ceritch, a couple fighting conch. My turbo has grown from a marble to a golf ball in 1 year. He's a pig.

I had an algae blenny, and it ate the algae all day long. Always had a full belly. But over the course of 2 years, it slowly got thinner and thinner and eventually died. I'm guessing my algae was not enough nutrients for it??



Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
Competition for food is another effective tool. I think the OP mentioned he had an algae scrubber, but hadn't added it yet. Add it now. Whether it's an algae scrubber, a planted refugium, a chaeto reactor, or just planting some macro algae right in the tank, any of these will provide competition for food. Some algae is gonna happen. By picking an algae export method, YOU control how much and where it is.

Sorry I rambled on. I hope some of this is helpful. Good luck! You're getting there!
I don't have the ATS yet. Waiting in the process of ordering one from Bud! It will go online as soon as possible. I do have a good LED grow light in my sump and its been pretty effective at growing algae on the walls of the center chamber.


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Last edited by Zalick; 12/23/2019 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 12/23/2019, 09:38 AM   #59
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I had a problem with hair algae, not to the extent in your pictures, but it wouldn't go away. My tank is also older than yours. I used GFO, did big water changes, carbon dosed, and even tried reef flux. While I was succeeding at keeping the algae in check, it just wouldn't go away... and I was also denying my corals nutrients they needed. I was having some growth & color issues.

As I thought about it, I realized that the nutrients that were feeding the algae were not solely bio-available N&P. The algae was competing for other nitrogen compounds that exists for short periods of time and finding the P it needed leaching from the substrate inside the tank.

As there really isn't a way to reduce these available nutrients, I chose another route. I chose to try a relatively new product... Vibrant. I won't claim to know what is in it, but it somehow employs bacteria to control algae directly. I kept up the GFO and carbon dosing, and did a slightly larger water change with each weekly dose of Vibrant. AND... I added a Sea Hare. The algae in my system was gone in 4 weeks and has not returned. The Sea Hare went to a new home, and while I do have a little GFO in the system, I've quit carbon dosing. The Vibrant didn't hurt anything in my SPS dominate tank.


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Old 12/23/2019, 12:08 PM   #60
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I am following this with interest. I have some heavy GHA but my tank just finished cycling a few weeks ago. My Hanna Checker also shows 0 phosphates. I have added a Foxface (not specifically for the algae) and bolstered my CUC. I put a lot of Cheato in my refugium and added a GFO reactor to my sump. I just started dosing Vibrant and will continue on a weekly basis.

I am seeing improvement. I started to do physical removal but it seemed to really stress a few fish I recently added (including the Foxface), so I am holding off to give them more time to get used to their new home before I start sticking my arms in the tank.


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Old 12/24/2019, 07:25 AM   #61
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I had a problem with hair algae, not to the extent in your pictures, but it wouldn't go away. My tank is also older than yours. I used GFO, did big water changes, carbon dosed, and even tried reef flux. While I was succeeding at keeping the algae in check, it just wouldn't go away... and I was also denying my corals nutrients they needed. I was having some growth & color issues.



As I thought about it, I realized that the nutrients that were feeding the algae were not solely bio-available N&P. The algae was competing for other nitrogen compounds that exists for short periods of time and finding the P it needed leaching from the substrate inside the tank.



As there really isn't a way to reduce these available nutrients, I chose another route. I chose to try a relatively new product... Vibrant. I won't claim to know what is in it, but it somehow employs bacteria to control algae directly. I kept up the GFO and carbon dosing, and did a slightly larger water change with each weekly dose of Vibrant. AND... I added a Sea Hare. The algae in my system was gone in 4 weeks and has not returned. The Sea Hare went to a new home, and while I do have a little GFO in the system, I've quit carbon dosing. The Vibrant didn't hurt anything in my SPS dominate tank.


Can you tell us a little more about the Vibrant? Did you do the double dose a week? Did you dose the full amount? Just curious. I am currently in exact position you are and ordered the Vibrant 3 days ago but am hesitant because of the SPS in my tank

Would like to add that tuxedo/pincushion urchins have pretty much knocked down my algae. They just canít get in the cracks. My Mexican turbo do that but canít keep up. Just looking for that final knock out punch and vibrant sounds like the ticket


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Old 12/24/2019, 09:47 AM   #62
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Can you tell us a little more about the Vibrant? Did you do the double dose a week? Did you dose the full amount? Just curious. I am currently in exact position you are and ordered the Vibrant 3 days ago but am hesitant because of the SPS in my tank

Would like to add that tuxedo/pincushion urchins have pretty much knocked down my algae. They just canít get in the cracks. My Mexican turbo do that but canít keep up. Just looking for that final knock out punch and vibrant sounds like the ticket
I have roughly a 100 gallon system. The hair algae issue was much the same as yours... in cracks and crevices where the clean-up crew or my hands couldn't get it. I have a lot of SPS corals, mostly Monti's but a few Acro's. The bioload in high and I feed a lot.

I dosed 10ml of Vibrant weekly, which is the recommended dosage. I did a 20 gallon water change before each dose. To help control the extra free nutrients I thought might result from dying algae, I maintained the 25ml/day dose of vinegar and slightly increased the amount of Rowaphos I used. Lastly, I put a big Sea Hare in the tank to help mow down some of the bigger tufts of algae.

It took 4 or 5 weeks for the algae to disappear. Most of the corals were either unaffected or actually started looking better. I did have an Orange Cap Monti that developed some bleach spots. I'm not sure if it was the Vibrant though. I've returned the Sea Hare to the LFS. I'm now dosing 10ml every two weeks and will continue to do so for a while.


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Old 12/29/2019, 10:14 AM   #63
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I have roughly a 100 gallon system. The hair algae issue was much the same as yours... in cracks and crevices where the clean-up crew or my hands couldn't get it. I have a lot of SPS corals, mostly Monti's but a few Acro's. The bioload in high and I feed a lot.

I dosed 10ml of Vibrant weekly, which is the recommended dosage. I did a 20 gallon water change before each dose. To help control the extra free nutrients I thought might result from dying algae, I maintained the 25ml/day dose of vinegar and slightly increased the amount of Rowaphos I used. Lastly, I put a big Sea Hare in the tank to help mow down some of the bigger tufts of algae.

It took 4 or 5 weeks for the algae to disappear. Most of the corals were either unaffected or actually started looking better. I did have an Orange Cap Monti that developed some bleach spots. I'm not sure if it was the Vibrant though. I've returned the Sea Hare to the LFS. I'm now dosing 10ml every two weeks and will continue to do so for a while.
Did you have any issues with cyano? From all I've read with Vibrant use, its been hit or miss with cyano outbreaks.


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Old 12/29/2019, 10:32 AM   #64
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I did some manual removal while waiting for my ICP tests to come back. I also did the coffee filter test for dinos, as found on a dino thread on R two R. Here is a picture of the filter test. It does appear I have dinos, although I think that's in addition to the algae. From what I've read, dinos are almost always present at some level.

For the coffee filter test, I used a turkey baster to suck up about 100ml of water/algae and squirted it into a coffee filter. Initially the water in the cup looked 100% clear. The algae stayed in the coffee filter. This picture is from the next morning.




These pictures were taken just now. This is about as long as the algae will get. It does not grow quickly. If I don't touch anything, it might grow another inch total. If I use a scrub brush on the rock, the rock will look 100% algae free, but it will grow back.





My current plan, once I get back the ICP test results, will be to perform aggressive manual removal via daily scrubbing with daily filter sock changes. During the scrubbing, I will have a siphon next to the scrub brush and be siphoning down to my sump and in to another filter sock.

I will also be performing weekly 10% water changes of ~40-50 gallons.

I will not be running carbon/gfo or dosing anything yet.


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Old 12/29/2019, 10:47 AM   #65
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Did you have any issues with cyano? From all I've read with Vibrant use, its been hit or miss with cyano outbreaks.
I have a little Cyano that popped up after all the hair algae was gone. I don't think it is directly caused by the Vibrant, but by the lack of competition and increased organic load caused by the dying/absence of the hair algae. Cyano is pretty easy to control though... more water changes, lots of GAC, wetter skimming, manual removal, shorter lighting periods. It'll go away soon. If it doesn't, I'll replace one of the doses of Vibrant with Chemiclean. That will take care or it.

I'll do 20%-25% water changes before using Chemiclean if it comes to that. I don't think it will though. The Cyano just isn't that bad.


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Old 12/31/2019, 12:51 PM   #66
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I've been letting my water get "dirty" since I had been running it as an ULN system. The parameters as of today, 12/31/19 are as follows:

dKh - 8.0
PO4 - .015
Ca - 430
Mg - 1290
NO3 - 0 on Salifert or 5 on API


I'm going to try and keep my phosphates detectable and Nitrates between 0 and 5.


Starting a 3 day blackout period, which will be followed by aggressive manual removal. I will update with pics today and then after the blackout, and then again after the manual removal.

Happy New year!


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Old 12/31/2019, 12:52 PM   #67
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Did you have any issues with cyano? From all I've read with Vibrant use, its been hit or miss with cyano outbreaks.


+1 Iíve used two different times on same tank with no cyano either time.


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Old 01/03/2020, 10:45 AM   #68
Zalick
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Here is my post 3-day blackout update. The pictures I posted above are from pre-blackout. The pictures below are post blackout. I will say the algae/dinos look to have
receded a bit and look more pale. I'm going to do some serious scrubbing and siphoning this afternoon. Will post pics after. I also received my ATI ICP test restults, posted below.
My analysis of those are below the tank pics.










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Old 01/03/2020, 10:46 AM   #69
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These results confirm what I've been seeing with my Hanna and Salifert tests. My system was running with undetectable phosphates for a long time and I was still getting
algae/dino growth. The only reason the ICP test showed any phosphate is because I let the tank get VERY dirty the last 4 months or so. no water changes at all.
I am disregarding the zinc reading in the RO water, since it does not appear in the tank water. I'm also not concerned with low idodine, based upon reading posts from Randy
regarding iodine testing and dosing. That said, the most healthy corals I ever maintained were on my first tank. I didn't really test for anything and randomly put drops of
idone in when I felt like it. :O

ICP Results





RO






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Old 01/04/2020, 07:59 PM   #70
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Update after blackout

here is my update after 3 day blackout.

So I do have dinos, along with the algae. Pics of algae below. Dino pics in following post.

Here are pics of my agressive in-tank scrub with a brush, post 3 day blackout.







Here is are pics of the algae





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Old 01/04/2020, 08:03 PM   #71
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Here are pics of the dinos & video. I have identified the Dinos as coolia monotis.




Video





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300g custom acrylic from James 72x36x27, 4 Mitras Lx7, 2 Stream 3s, C2C beananimal low profile overflow. 100g sump, Vectra M1 -> 114w aquauv -> SRO 5000ext w/ VarioS-6S. -> VarioS 8 return.

Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA

Last edited by Zalick; 01/05/2020 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 01/04/2020, 08:37 PM   #72
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Here is an interesting picture of my ORP graph. There was a plunge within minutes of scrubbing the rocks in tank. Posted more for an interesting observation.



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300g custom acrylic from James 72x36x27, 4 Mitras Lx7, 2 Stream 3s, C2C beananimal low profile overflow. 100g sump, Vectra M1 -> 114w aquauv -> SRO 5000ext w/ VarioS-6S. -> VarioS 8 return.

Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 01/05/2020, 12:31 AM   #73
bertoni
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When do the lights go on? Photosynthesis will affect the ORP level.


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Old 01/05/2020, 12:48 AM   #74
Zalick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
When do the lights go on? Photosynthesis will affect the ORP level.
Interesting. My lights go on at 6am. Looking at the graphs, the drops all start shortly after lights go on, for some reason this drop was much more.


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300g custom acrylic from James 72x36x27, 4 Mitras Lx7, 2 Stream 3s, C2C beananimal low profile overflow. 100g sump, Vectra M1 -> 114w aquauv -> SRO 5000ext w/ VarioS-6S. -> VarioS 8 return.

Current Tank Info: I'm growing GHA
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Old 01/05/2020, 07:58 AM   #75
five.five-six
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I finally won my battle 2 year battle with GHA. I had used Fluconazole before but this time I used the Blue life brand which is nice because you don’t have to spend 1/2 hr opening pills.

Anyways, saw little for the first week, 2nd week was dramatic. Ending the 3rd week and there are just a few stragglers but they are white and don’t look healthy at all.


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