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Old 09/30/2020, 06:46 PM   #1
Krchfam
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Dinoís & Aptasia - is this the breaking point for a new reefer?

1-1/2 into a 90 gallon reef tank, corals starting to grow, fish happy and looks to be the start of a great tank. Then comes Aptasia and Dinoís.

Aptasia I just got peppermint shrimp from AlgaeBarn (wow they were small) and a nudibranch that I never see so hopefully Iíll see progress there

Dinoís are beating me down. I went through the Dr Timís Method and although initial success Iím back where it started and completely frustrated. My nitrates stay around 8-10 but my phosphates are 0 which I read is a problem. Iíve been dosing Neophos and still canít get a reading.

Have a sump with sand/live rock, feed generously with frozen food and had been doing weekly
10% water changes which I stopped when started the Dr Timís process. Parameters are as follows:

PH -8
Alk 8.2
Cal - 425
Mag - 1500
Nit - 8-10
Phoís - O
Temp 78-80.

Any other tried and true approaches? Thanks everyone.


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Old 09/30/2020, 06:57 PM   #2
djryan2000
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Dinoís & Aptasia - is this the breaking point for a new reefer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krchfam View Post
1-1/2 into a 90 gallon reef tank, corals starting to grow, fish happy and looks to be the start of a great tank. Then comes Aptasia and Dinoís.

Aptasia I just got peppermint shrimp from AlgaeBarn (wow they were small) and a nudibranch that I never see so hopefully Iíll see progress there

Dinoís are beating me down. I went through the Dr Timís Method and although initial success Iím back where it started and completely frustrated. My nitrates stay around 8-10 but my phosphates are 0 which I read is a problem. Iíve been dosing Neophos and still canít get a reading.

Have a sump with sand/live rock, feed generously with frozen food and had been doing weekly
10% water changes which I stopped when started the Dr Timís process. Parameters are as follows:

PH -8
Alk 8.2
Cal - 425
Mag - 1500
Nit - 8-10
Phoís - O
Temp 78-80.

Any other tried and true approaches? Thanks everyone.


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What are your nutrient export methods? Iím guessing you have a large refugium?

If you canít solve it, something like this may be worthwhile - https://fishofhex.com/products/dino-identification. This guy will examine the Dino under a microscope to figure out specifically which species it is and then give you a plan of action. Some Dinos thrive in different environments than others.


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Old 09/30/2020, 07:00 PM   #3
Krchfam
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Just sand/rock and chaeto in the refugium.


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Old 09/30/2020, 08:12 PM   #4
MarAquatic
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If you can use microscope to identify dino. Throw a uv sterilizer and watch them disappear

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Old 10/01/2020, 05:21 AM   #5
Krchfam
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I have a UV on my system, so Iím assuming that the type of Dinoís that I have are not in the water column. I actually replaced my bulb a few weeks ago thinking maybe it had lost its affect, but no change.


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Old 10/01/2020, 08:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krchfam View Post
I have a UV on my system, so Iím assuming that the type of Dinoís that I have are not in the water column. I actually replaced my bulb a few weeks ago thinking maybe it had lost its affect, but no change.


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Anyway to put the input directly in the display?

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Old 10/01/2020, 08:54 AM   #7
Michael Hoaster
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djryan2000's suggestion above of the dino guy sounds awesome!

This is the first I've heard of UV not working on dinos. Is it possible you're pumping water through it too fast? Bigger is not better, when it comes to pumps for UV. The more 'dwell time' the better, so a smaller pump is better. If possible, try to slow the flow rate through your UV. Also, don't expect to see any difference from day to day. It takes months.

Beating dinos requires a long game with a solid plan. In my winning battle I went after their food source, added predators and brought in competition for nutrients, along with continuous UV.

Food. What do dinos eat? Who knows. I went with the 'you-are-what-you-eat' theory, so you don't have to know what they eat. I manually removed dinos every other day. Where is their most concentrated food source? In the water column? Nope. It's in the dinos themselves.

Predators. I added 1000 pods and an army of reproducing snails, even a few mollies (that I never fed, so they constantly grazed).

Competition. I wanted a fast-growing macro algae to outcompete the dinos for nutrients. I used Ulva. It grows very fast and is easily removed.

Once I had them on the ropes, I hit them with a knock-out punch - a 4 day blackout, followed by a large water change.

That's what worked for me. It took months. Good luck!


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 10/01/2020, 08:55 AM   #8
Krchfam
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I guess I could buy a separate unit and run it from tank through the UV and back. But I k ow some Dinoís are not affected by the UV system. I donít really see it on my rocks and coral, itís just all over my sand.


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Old 10/01/2020, 08:58 AM   #9
Michael Hoaster
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Yes, I just put the UV pump right in the tank. It wasn't pretty but it was effective.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 10/01/2020, 08:59 AM   #10
Krchfam
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My pump
Is slightly
Undersized so my flow is not too fast last time I looked at the calculations. Itís a 15 amp UV, guess I could
Replace it with a 25 W unit but I think the 15W is rated for 90 gallons.

You are correct, I could syphon everyday into filter sock.

Iím confused about the inability to get Phosphates reading. I would think after dosing it, I would see something??? What I read is 0 on phosphates and nitrates can contribute to Dinoís but I have nitrates and no phosphates. So where are the phosphates going?

Yes, agree that the Dino guy might be worth trying. Going to investigate that further!


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Old 10/01/2020, 10:16 AM   #11
Michael Hoaster
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It's likely the dinos are soaking up phosphates, leading to zero readings, just like algae does. Adding phosphates are just feeding them more. I don't subscribe to the 'low nutrients lead to dinos' theory. Both of my dino experiences followed high nutrient events.

I'd cut back on feeding and dosing to limit possible food sources.


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As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
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Old 10/01/2020, 10:55 AM   #12
Krchfam
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Agree, I struggle
To understand the nutrient piece. Iím with you that itís feels Iím just feeding it. . . Itís why you knock them down with a 3 day blackout because you starve them of light. . .

So I may stop the phosphate additive . . . I ordered the Dino guy testing kit and will keep posted on how that goes.


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Old 10/01/2020, 02:13 PM   #13
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Dinoís & Aptasia - is this the breaking point for a new reefer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krchfam View Post
Agree, I struggle
To understand the nutrient piece. Iím with you that itís feels Iím just feeding it. . . Itís why you knock them down with a 3 day blackout because you starve them of light. . .

So I may stop the phosphate additive . . . I ordered the Dino guy testing kit and will keep posted on how that goes.


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One of the things I remember from microbiology course is that dinoflagellates thrive when biological diversity is low. When thereís diversity they tend to be outcompeted and exist in small numbers. I donít know if youíve tried it, but maybe dosing competing bacteria might help.


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Old 10/01/2020, 02:28 PM   #14
Krchfam
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Iíve tried the Dr Tims. . . But is this the correct ďcompetingĒ bacteria?


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Old 10/01/2020, 03:48 PM   #15
Krchfam
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The ďrenewĒ which I believe is the competing bacteria.


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Old 10/08/2020, 09:29 AM   #16
Krchfam
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Dinoís 4. Me 0.

Iím losing.


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Old 10/08/2020, 03:53 PM   #17
Daddyrawg
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what worked for me was no water changes, lights out 3 days with a blanket over tank, and vibrant


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Old 10/08/2020, 04:22 PM   #18
Krchfam
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Did the same (Dr Tims Method). Cleared it but 2 days later it was back.

Tried dosing phosphates, nitrates are already high.

Increased temp.

Siphoned it out every day.



Iím obviously not smart enough to understand all of the components of reefing. Just frustrating.


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Old 10/08/2020, 04:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krchfam View Post
Iíve tried the Dr Tims. . . But is this the correct ďcompetingĒ bacteria?


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Iíve heard mixed results of people using live rock enhance opposed to Dr. Timís. It might be worth a shot.


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Old 10/08/2020, 04:26 PM   #20
Krchfam
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I will try that. Thanks.


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Old 10/08/2020, 04:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krchfam View Post
Did the same (Dr Tims Method). Cleared it but 2 days later it was back.

Tried dosing phosphates, nitrates are already high.

Increased temp.

Siphoned it out every day.



Iím obviously not smart enough to understand all of the components of reefing. Just frustrating.


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So I just read your original post again. Itís a silly question, but are you sure itís dino? I used to have this nasty brown hair algae that had snot on it. I posted a photo on reddit and a bunch of people immediately replied that itís definitely Dino. My water parameters were similar to yours (nitrates were a little higher, phosphate reading 0).

It ended up being hair algae pulling phosphate out of the water and the snot was composed of micro bubbles from my skimmer that werenít clearly coming out. I only figured it out because an LFS employee said to rip some out and turn off my skimmer for 48 hours and see if the snot goes away. It did.

Not saying this is definitely the case but Iím wondering if itís a possibility. It certainly was a weird scenario.


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Old 10/08/2020, 05:09 PM   #22
Krchfam
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I think it is. Every test I have done shows that itís Dino. Pull some out, shake it up and it ďclumpsĒ together. I have sent some samples to the contact someone gave me above so
Maybe he will confirm with the telescope. Although I donít seem to see bubbles on mine, but Iím also cleaning it off rather quickly. plus I treated twice with chemiclean as I thought it was cyno and that didnít seem to work either. What solved yours?

The low phosphate and high nitrate is baffling to me though. This is the one piece that doesnít seem to fit anything I read. Most everything is low on both. . . Not just one.

When I try to dose phosphate I still canít get a reading. Using salifert test so have a Hannah checker ordered and on the way.

New UV bulb

And not to mention the F aptasia everywhere and no signs of my nudibranchs or peppermint shrimps . . .


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Old 10/08/2020, 05:13 PM   #23
djryan2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krchfam View Post
I think it is. Every test I have done shows that itís Dino. Pull some out, shake it up and it ďclumpsĒ together. I have sent some samples to the contact someone gave me above so
Maybe he will confirm with the telescope. Although I donít seem to see bubbles on mine, but Iím also cleaning it off rather quickly. plus I treated twice with chemiclean as I thought it was cyno and that didnít seem to work either. What solved yours?

The low phosphate and high nitrate is baffling to me though. This is the one piece that doesnít seem to fit anything I read. Most everything is low on both. . . Not just one.

When I try to dose phosphate I still canít get a reading. Using salifert test so have a Hannah checker ordered and on the way.

New UV bulb

And not to mention the F aptasia everywhere and no signs of my nudibranchs or peppermint shrimps . . .


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Darn. I never tried the clumping test. What fixed mine was just pulling it all out and changing out a lot of water and adding a CUC. I didnít have Dino, I just had a weird case of hair algae. I remember my LFS telling me to watch the snails - if they dropped dead or just completely ignored it I had dino, but if they ate it and were fine it was algae. The former is what happened


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Old 10/08/2020, 05:45 PM   #24
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My cuc is not dying, but they are also not eating it. . .


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Old 10/08/2020, 09:43 PM   #25
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My cuc is not dying, but they are also not eating it. . .


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Iíd say itís not the weird brown algae I had. I thought it was worth a mention if no dino treatment has worked for you.


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